This is an article dated 2005, from a Brazillian defense site. Its originally in Portuguese and translated using babelfish, thats why it is a little strange in grammer and wording.

The Patagon is a Argentinian version of the AMX-13, it mounting AMX-13/105 turrets onto brand new SK-105 chassis.


Patagón, the tank of Argentine manufacture





Minister of Defense Jose Pampuro assured that the Government wants the participation of "national industry" in the "re-equipment" of the Armed Forces. With Patagon they took the first step towards the objective to create a national system of production for the defense.

The head of the Argentine Army, general Roberto Bendini, presented/displayed the first prototype of the tank "Patagón", to which she considered the first passage towards the objective to create a national system of production for the defense.


"To dream about nationalizing the equipment" for the defense "it was not an utopia", he assured Bendini in the act presentation of the prototype of the military vehicle, celebrated in an installation of the Army located to the outskirts of Buenos Aires and which he attended the minister of Defense, Jose Pampuro.

The plan for the series production of the 105 tank VC SK "Patagón", that will assemble in sureña city of Commodore Rivadavia, will reach to other 39 vehicles, to a cost near the 23.4 million dollars (20 million euros).





Bendini defined to the tank "Patagón" as "one of the main profits" in the guidelines of equipment of the force that announced in 2003, soon after assuming the headquarters of the Army after the arrival to the Government of the president, Néstor Kirchner.

Military sources explained that with this project the Argentine Army returns to arm a tank in the country after a quarter of century.

The manual labor and the facilities for the assembled one of the tank will be provided by the Argentine Army, whereas the supervision of the task and the provision of spare parts Steyr is in charge of the Austrian company, the only manufacturer of tank SK 105.





On the other hand, minister Pampuro, maintained that the government wants that "the national industry" participates in the "re-equipment of the Armed Forces", when heading the act of presentation of the prepared tank battle light Patagón.

"This is a decision of the president of the Nation (Néstor Kirchner) and of the government to impel the national industry", it maintained to Pampuro when explaining the project of integral repair of vehicles battle that takes ahead the Army.

The minister remarcó, on the matter, the necessity "to advance in this idea based on that the national industry is present in the re-equipment of our Armed Forces".

Soon, according to spokesmen of Defense, he aimed that the project looks for to modernize to the Armed Forces and "to give to manual labor and technical capacity to the national industry".


During the presentation made in the Rear command of Material (COLOMA) of the Army, of the Buenosairean locality of Boulonge, it was possible to be seen one of the tanks make different maneuvers in different lands.

According to he briefed himself from the Ministry of Defense, the idea is that "these tanks are unfolded in the Patagonia, by his easy operative adaptation to difficult lands".

"one is a project elaborated by the Direction of Investigation, Development and Production, for the integral repair, conversion and modernization of the vehicles of family SK (tanks battle) for quinquennium 2005-2009", inquired by means of an official notice of the Army.





The works were executed by personnel of the force, which implied in first term the technical qualification, and also opens the possibility of offering the maintenance service of vehicles battle to the countries members of the Mercosur, besides to contribute to the intensive use of local manual labor, it was briefed.

In the act, they were, in addition, the head of the Army, general lieutenant Roberto Bendini; and the head of the Combined headquarters of the Armed Forces, general Brigadier Jorge Chevallier.


....

hmm, it does look like a stock Kurassier to me, especially that (optics?) box on top of the rear part of the turret.

the 1st and 3rd pics are probably Kurassiers, while the 2nd one, with the crewmen saluting, is clearly different; likely the Argie version with AMX-13 turret. note the lack of thermal sleeve on the gun, and the lack of turret-top box.

I thought the TAM would be a better choice.

Hey, Nice Photos.

No matter how many time I see AMX-13/SM-1, still Love them.

They may Lack Turret Top Box. but notice the Top Most Photo, they have Turret Top Jerry Can. :D Water Key for the crew.

When i saw the title of this thread i thought the SAF is going to sell or donate the SM1 to Argentina! :D

Anyone can confirm the original suspension height of SM1 was much higher but after a few overturning accidents they lowered it? Look at the idle wheel
I remember the early SM1s the road wheels seemed to be much like the SK-105

For the first picture, is that a ATGM fixed atop the turret??

SG AMX-13 equipped with thermal-sleeved 90mm gun at the ST Automotive's Portsdown Road facility.



Our AMX-13 could have upgraded to this in the 80s.

And look those "vehicles" that are covered, STA were certainly pretty busy then. B)

Not the best possible combination of an AMX-13 turret, lookwise
but better hull armour

The Egyptian AMX/Sherman

One question - Why didn't SAF consider upgunning the AMX-13 to 105mm?

Anyone knows what's the loading mechanism like on these upgunned 90/105mm AMX-13s? Still the magazines on the outside?

The AMX had been upgunned to 90mm? :huh:

Not really on the outside, there are 2 flaps that open fr the top on each turret rear side, each load 6 rounds in a 2x rotating revolver mechanisms. One crew drop in the round and another crank the revolver to receive the next round.All manual operation.

Once these 12 rounds has expended one crew has to come out and load them, pretty dangerous in a battlefield i must say.

I was in Ex Crescendo in 2005 when i helped the tankees load them :D

I would think the 90 or 105mm is same mechanism, just modification of the revolvers & autoloader to take the extra calibre.

Thanks for the clarification on the loading procedure. I should have made my post clearer ... by "magazine on the outside" I meant loaded from the outside. Nonetheless your post explained the reloading process which I never knew. :)

Given that the AMX-13 turret is pretty cramped to begin with ... I wonder how they'd fit the magazine for the larger and longer 90/105mm rounds?

From what i observed during the loading, the revolvers should fit the 90 or 105mm as it is only a steel cradle that just holds the shell without any tight tolerances.
Only the autoloader chamber needs modifications i think

Also SM1 carry abt 36 rounds, so the turret floor can keep the other 24 rounds. Consider that during re-loading one crew needs to bring the rounds to the turret exterior then load them. One crew will always be exposed to enemy fire. At least 10mins fastest for this reloading.
So the field tactics is once expended all 12 rounds, next tank took over the position & expended tank retreat to the rear to reload. I wonder how this is possible in a midst of a firefight?


Perhaps SM1 is for quick attacks, not for sustained firefight

Thanks for the explanations, have never really read up on or been in a AMX-13 so it does paint a pretty good picture

With that bit of steel that passes for armour on it ... I sincerely doubt it's for sustained engagements. :)

yah, that is a shortcoming of oscillating turrets, manual loading is difficult and therefore an autoloader is useful. but for the magazine to be fixed in position to the gun - the magazine has to be inline with the gun and that puts it in the bustle.
Hence, external reloading at the bustle.
Internal loading can be designed, but that needs a bigger turret, bigger turret ring, and reloading mechanism underarmour; which may require a bigger hull.

good enough if its a tank destroyer role

hit and run like hell :lol:

The SM1 is not very stealth too, the noise fr the engine is so loud that it can be heard 2 miles away.

During Ex if u hear any engine roar towards your direction chances are its a SM1 and the tank will appear 10min later right in front of you :D

thats to match the WHUPWHUPWHUP of our old UH-1Hs :lol: :lol: :lol:

So much so that during my NS days at 40SAR the noise cause some complaints from the nearby residents. ( the tank shed is just 200m away from HDB) across CCK road during morning routine servicing@ 7am

Then order passed down, servicing only after 830am, we get to sleep more :D

no engine mufflers? :huh:

.... so much for quiet approach ... Ambush and Run looks more workable then

with the emphasis on the "like hell" bit :lol:

I wonder, if the ex-AMX13 crew ever felt their "vulnerability" and if they will be glad to see the end of that era (nostalgia aside).

The petrol engined were much much quieter though, i have witnessed a couple of petrol examples running around in my camp, all in original conditon with the spare road wheel at the front. The CG was much lower.


The most siong was the driver, he sit next to the engine, noise + heat+ smell of diesel no aircon somemore. Some driver drove with upper body naked,the tank overall can be unzipped either fr top or groin area. :D

better with the Leo2, rear mounted engine, only fighting compartment is hot.
Driver cooling off in front ... but still no air-con

beagle, does the AMX-13 have a turret tranverse problem?

STA at that time did showcase the upgunned 90mm AMX-13, as for why that it is not implemented in SM1, I can only speculated.

SG already developed the 75mm APFSDS rd which has a penetration abt 310mm @ 0-deg @ 1km( estimated done by tanknet members) which is more than sufficient to handle any AFV in the region then , perhaps even T-54/55 and T-62 MBT.

Perhaps that's the reason why no 90mm upgunned version.

thanks Gary :D they found their silver bullet :P

I guess they did not upgrade to 90mm gun due to cost related problems. To purchase enough for 300+ AMX13 is a mammoth task.

I can testify to the massive power of the FS round...the recoil is so great the parking brake almost cannot handle it! :D

:) Ever seen a SM-1 Drift, after Firing?

If Almost cannot handle, it is the slightly reduced powder version.

:blink: :blink:

The grandfather of the AMX-13's 75mm is supposed to be the 75mm Kwk 42 L/70 mounted on the Panther ... and that could only manage 149mm @ 0-deg @ 1km.

Things certainly have come a long way ...

Are you saying that the round that tankee1981 saw being fired is a reduced powder round ... and that there is a full powder war shot that'll "drift" the AMX-13?

Wow! :blink:

Just saw them being moved this week.

wow, where's it headed from/to? outwardly doesn't look like they've taken anything away...

sorry to bring up such an old topic, but hey you tell those CCK residents, the tanks were there first so shut up! :lol:

Are these bound for the chop shop or for storage preservasion?

Miss the sights of these former armour mainstays of ours....

I wonder if those that are out of the country will be brought home.

I saw four trailers and they were from Jurong heading to town.

I've no idea of their final destination.

I was wondering why the main gun can not be removed and added onto the V200 used by the PDF, since they still can deliver a potent punch against potential adversaries' armor asset?

On the issue of up-gunning the AMX-13, I think it is the stability issue that cause them to abandon the idea. I read from a MY forum/blog that their upgraded simbas and condor cannot fully withstand the shock energy when firing and that signs of cracks due to fatigue can be detected just after a few live firing.

then we are back to the whole rigmarole of finding a turret!

wallaby or portsdown rd?