Let's discuss about RSAF's AAM inventory. For short range engagements, we have the AIM-9P and AIM-9L/M/S versions of the sidewinder. It is also rumoured that we have Python 4 AAMs.
For medium range engagements, we have recently received the AIM-120 AMRAAM and have placed orders for 50 Aim-120C5 AMRAAM. We also do have Aim-7M Sparrow. There is word that we have purchased Derbies to take the place of the AMRAAMs when we were denied to bring them a few years back.
Any idea with the arrival of the AMRAAMS, have we withdrawn derbies and sparrows?

although there were alot of proof that python 4 exists in the rsaf, nothing so far have indicated that derbies were purchased.

IF we have the Derby, I don't see why it should be withdrawn with the arrival of AMRAAMs. I see it as the better missile (overall) anyway B)

As for the Sparrows, they were still displayed at the 2003 Open House. I don't think it will be withdrawn as yet.

Well, as for the Python 4, don't need hard proof as we can easily deduce from the fact that the Block52 Vipers have the DASH-3 HMS installed. Currently, only Python 4/5 works with the DASH-3, not ASRAAM nor AIX-9X have been integrated with DASH-3.

Is the AIM-9P more numerous than the other variants of the sidewinder in RSAF? I see that in most photos, the papa version is always being carried. In RSAF open houses, the inert models are AIM-9Ps too.

one question....

the aim-120c2 which was bought recently.....will the missiles be stored in singapore or some other parts of the world?

Yes, the -9Ps are the most common. The RSAF started off with AIM-9Gs in the 70s for the Hunters and early Skyhawks, then went on to the 9J/Ps when the F-5s were bought. The Gs were eventually retired. Only with the Peace Carvin II (1994) contract did the RSAF get the AIM-9S.

The Hunter in the RSAF museum carries -9Gs on it's pylons.

kanzer, I would assume brought back. Makes little sense to keep them overseas if the earlier batch are already in-country

if that is the case then it is good....you know uncle sam lah....

I thought the F16s by default cannot fire the Sparrow. So our RSAF F16s modified to fire the Sparrow.

Got article once I read. Think it was Janes. Can`t remember. That Derbies have been sold to an Asian country; they said either Singapore or China but most likely Singapore.

But our neighbours will have longer ranged Amraamski. We should upgrade the amraams in our hands as soon as possible. the newer versions are equal or better in range than the Amraamski.

I think the later versions of F16s especially those USAF ones are not Aim 7 capable, think they lack some software or something thats why.
Not sure about RSAF ones but since they are seen carrying Aim 7 i guess they came with it lo??... anyway first cut is Aim120, then Aim7 then heaters mah in an engagement...
Aim 7 sucks actually....

ALL F-16s are capable of firing the AIM-7 Sparrow. All it needs is the 16S501 rail in place of the usual pylon in Station 3/7 and its Sparrow ready. The earlier A/Bs with the APG-66 lacked BVR capability for the Sparrow, but were still able to fire it from WVR.

The Sparrow does not suck, the later versions had a very high PK (at Desert Storm) as compared with the ones used in Vietnam, and the performance of those were affected by US RoE, tactics and missile maintenance.

Well i guess there are improvements made to the Sparrow,
read somewhere though, in Desert Storm, the AIM 7M shot down 24 aircraft.
In Vietnam the success rate was 9%, in Desert Storm it was 36%. However bad news is over half the AIM 7 launched failed to function properly and about 1 in 3 actually hit and killed something. Out of 71 AIM 7M fired, only 26 hit their target, for 24 kills.
Best performance so far in combat by the AIM 7.

I'm not sure of the statistics of other contemporary SARH weapons, but I would wager a hit rate of 36% is right up there with the best.

I'd be interested to see the statistics for the R-27, Super 530 and other similar weapons that have been used in combat.

Well, it really depends on the launch parameters and condition of the missiles. One can easily argued that the AIM-120A performed just as poorly in Bosnia when the Dutch Vipers had to fired 3 Amraams to down a Serb Mig-29.

Then again, the missiles were fired at extremely launch range, and does it mean that the missile sucks? It really depends on how it is being used right. I'm sure Israeli might have achieved a slightly higher figure with the Sparrows, but I haven't seen any figures to prove my statement here either (most of the known Israeli kills were WVR missiles or guns).

The AIM7 's PK was very low in Vietnam, But I heard that some of them break lock when the lauching fighter have to take evasive action after being attacked. Since it was fired at long range, the flight time is quite long.

In a combat situation, pilots might fire in less then optimum conditions. Missle Range and PK is long thing, Missles can only be launched at certain flight envelopes, eg speed, pointing up or down etc etc... Under test conditions, the launching a/c is usually straight and level. but in turning combat, sometimes the missles are launch at poor condition and then "fail to function properly".

Also, many missles are fired off in "self-defence" without achieving a proper lock. which explains the very very low PK.

Initially the F16's cannot fire Sparrow. in the USAF the air-to-air figther is the F15 initially, the F16 is air-to-ground and short-range dogfigther so only needs AIM9 and Vulcan. So radar not made to guide Sparrow.

Only the ADF version of the F16 can fire sparrow. I think they didn't modify the other F16 because waiting for AMRAAM.

Not sure of current status though.

Any idea if we still hold any AIM-9P3s or are they all AIM-9P4s and better?

I recall reading an article that says Singapore offered our P3s to the Royal Air Force during the Falklands War.

Are the F5S qualified on to carry and launch Sparrows? I think the Grifo F can do illumination for them.

not sure about the sparrows but what is certain is that the F-5S can use amraam. why would u want to use sparrows when they are amraam capable....

you sure F5 can carry Amraam or Sparrow?
the wings so thin...
sure not..? ;)

the centre pylon can carry 2000lb, the inner wing pylon can carry 1000lb and the outer wing pylon can carry 500lb and wingtips carry sidewinders

a sparrow is 500lb and amraam is 350lb, go do your math

It is actually more difficult for a a/c to interface with with Sparrow then Amraam, although Sparrow is a much older design.

This is because the Amraam is fire-and-forget which means you only need to provide targeting info to the missle and then fire after that no more interace.

For sparrow, the radar must be capable for Continuous Wave (CW) illumination of the target.

The original F5's radar definitely cannot do CW illum. not sure about the upgraded radar though.

I have never seen a RSAF a/c with a sparrow. Is there a photo somewhere.

During the Falklands, I thought the RAF and RN uses the 9L which is urgently shipped from the US to UK.

The F20 Tigershark prototypes were carrying and firing Sparrows. So I presumed if the F-5E wings were strengthen, I can't see why it should be able to carry and fire Sparrows. The new Grifo radar should have the Continous Wave Illuminator to fire the sparrows. The radar is also compatible with AMRAAMS. In any case, I can only image F-5S will be at most, upgraded with the likes of Derby which physically resemble AIM-9 anyway.

Reference:
Northrop F-5G/F-20A Tigershark

The F20 Tigershark is developed with the USAF ADF and export customers in mind, which is why it is Sparrow capable. How to be Air defence Figther if you couldn't fire Sparrow which in that era is the mainstay in air defence. AIM9 for dogfights.

The F5E is a originally designed as a cheapo export model from the begining to be sold or gifted to third world countries who need a "supersonic" figther. So simple ranging radar without CW capable. 20mm cannons, AIM9 and dumb bombs.

The F5S is a different story. But I will be surprised if it should use sparrows, if we are moving to AMRAAM why use sparrows?

Unless we are have a large stock of sparrows somewhere.

the old F-5 radar display is like an oscilloscope, the pilot must look for a faint ghost bar in the scope to identify the target. the pilots train alot on the simulator to get use to the radar display.

I also find it interesting that the Vipers in Singapore are wired for HMS but not the Tigers given the Tigers were recently given an upgrade. Furthermore, after the arrival of the Vipers (Block 52), I don't see too many pics of Tigers carrying precision guided munition much. Are they reassigned for air-defence role?

digress a bit......

with the withdrawal of A-4 in a couple of years time, will the F-5s take over the AJT role?

I believe the F-5S is also upgraded with HMS and have the ability to use Python 4 AAM.

Below is the link abt Chile F-16 and F-5 where the Israeli upgraded the F-5 with their avionics.

Well, the Tigers I've seen didn't have the magnetic sensor on the top of the canopy like the F-16C/Ds. So it MIGHT point to the fact that they haven't had the HMS integrated yet. Although I would wager that the RSAF would have tried to at some point.

As for Python IV, having the HMS would allow the aircraft to use it to its optimum parameters, although an aircraft does not need the HMS to use the Python IV, albeit less effectively.

No, theres another competition for a new type, although I believe it would more or less be on the back burner.

There were a couple of threads on it in the old Military Nuts

I remember reading in some Jane yearbook that RSAF has a few AN\AVQ 27 for laser designators.

Mounted on the rear seat of F5-Sf?

I think used for the paveway LGBs.

Then there's the Mavericks......a small CRT in the cockpit.

The RSAF Hawker Hunters were among the very few (along with the Swiss Air Force) to be capable of firing Mavericks.

Do we still have Mavericks A/Bs?

Israel's Arms Exports....


Following are some prominent Israeli arms deals in the 1990s: 96 Barak air-to-ground missiles to Singapore; 100 Popeye air-to-ground missiles to the US; six Kfir jet fighters to Ecuador; 15 Kfirs to Sri Lanka for use against the Tamil Tiger rebels; ten rocket launchers to Chile; 18 radars to Singapore; 130 anti-tank missiles to Estonia; ten anti-ship missiles to Chile; 18 155-mm artillery pieces to Slovenia; 100 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to South Korea; 15 tanks to Uruguay; 600 Python air-to-air missiles to Singapore; 46 Popeye missiles to Turkey; five 155-mm towed-artillery pieces to Botswana; ten radars to Chile; 48 Python missiles Ecuador; 28 UAVs to Switzerland; eight 155-mm towed artillery pieces to Cameroon; 960 Spike anti-tank missiles to Romania; six UAVs to Finland; two UAVs to the Philippines, for use against the Abu Sayyaf and other Muslim guerillas; 54 Barak missiles to Venezuela; 84 Python missiles to Chile; a landing craft (LCT) to Eritrea; a Bell helicopter to Argentina; and four Skyhawk jets to NATO.

:D
:ph43r:

aiyah...to sidetrack a bit.....in the armour formation...... actually send people to 'country x' for training on their armour vehicles... what is country x....aiyah.....use your imagination...

I don`t know..i don`t know..what is country x leh? Malaysia rite :blink: :P

:D :D
Yup, they let us trained on their Sibmas, KIFV etc, so we know their weakness. :rolleyes:
They even sponsored one batch of our armour officers to Poland so that we will be familiar with their yet to deliver PT-91M, so when our forces went northward , they will know what to expect and hoeto counter them!!!! :D :D