http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/Doc...314562&fid=1725

About time they get a new system to replace the Rapiers

The Spyder missiles are said to have total commonality with the A2A versions

It's about "bloody" time! :)

June 2005 article

Might be India, but I think they went for Spyder-MR... so that leaves...? :huh:

Couldn't that be Sg? 3 years sounds reasonable catering for further dev etc etc

With Derbys, the range is said to be 40km ...sounds like both short and medium range can be catered for with batteries using pythons or derbys.
The I-hawks are getting old too....

The Indian buy is for the basic Spyder variant.

There was a interview with the Chief of Airforce published in the Defensenews that they are still evaluating 3 systems, SLAMRAAM, MICA VL and Spyder.

a comprehensive intro to the system...

link to spyder

Ah, so those 3 squadrons could still be for India... So they have the Spyder-SR and want the Spyder-MR as well. Milfan, what we're getting is the Spyder-SR, and when ground launched, you cannot take the A2A range anymore. Range becomes drastically reduced unless the missile is given a booster, which is only there in the Spyder-MR system. To give an idea of how much range is lost, the Phoenix had a surface launched derivative that could barely reach 20 miles as compared to the 100+ miles it could reach in the air-launched variant.

There is more Israel / India partnership on missiles...or is it Spyder?

Rafael, Tata Power Join To Offer ADS System To Indian Air Force

Company News Rafael Tata Power Israeli armament major Rafael announced that the company has joined hands with the Tata power to offer maintenance work of Air Defense Systems (ADS). The company will supply this ADS system to the Indian Air Force. This is a very unique and most advanced air defense system available in the world.

Rafael is an authority for development of weapons and military technology for the country. Rafael is a former sub-division of the Israeli Defense ministry and is considered a governmental firm. It develops and produces fighting-technologies for the Israel Defense Forces as well for exporting abroad.

Rafael will sign the Production Transfer Program (PTP) agreement within this fiscal with the Tata group company.

The missiles will target low flying threats. It will to replace the Indian Air Force's ageing Russian supplied Sam-6 and Sam-7 missiles. The missiles would be used in tandem with India's indigenous Akash surface-to-air missiles which have recently been cleared for induction after successful test-fire. It will protect the country from all kinds of enemy aircrafts.

Rafael's director for air-to-air and air defense systems Oron Oriol said that under the proposed agreement, Tata Power will manufacture some parts of the air defense systems and do the maintenance work post delivery.

The fifth generation surface-to-air or air-to-air Python-5 missile can be launched from very short to beyond-visual ranges. It has greater kill probability, excellent resistance to countermeasures, irrespective of evasive target maneuvers or deployment of countermeasures.

http://www.stockwatch.in/rafael-tata-power...-air-force-2552

I reckon it's the usual game, get the SR first, maybe enhancment later. :lol:

Sounds like the perfect lead-in timing for an official announcement in our usual style.

If SG acquired Spyder SR then the MR at a later date that would mean the gradual replacement of Rapier and the eventual replacement of I-Hawk. One stone kill two birds. Good decision!

So... does that mean that RSAF already has the Python 5 and Derby in service? :rolleyes:

very good question...speculation has been around for a long time..

The Spyder ADMS has anti-CM capability. Mmm... hopefully RSAF will get their hands on the MR ADS version. That will sure extend the ability to defence of our airspace. B)

If they didn't before, it sounds like a very good ideal now
;)

The Indian-Rafael Spyder deal is on hold at the moment, mired in investigations on alleged bribery charges .... The Akash system has come into service meanwhile
The Spyder was a stop-gap measure because of delays in getting the Akash on-line.

For medium range, there was a JV on an ER variant of the naval Barak NG tipped for the role as well.

Read in www.alert5.com that SG itself is providing the radar portion of the equation.... is our own radars that effective? With these would it mean no Patriots?? But dont think rapiers & hawk will be thrown away just like... still effective for region and sphere... rivals' current aircraft inventroy can still be handled by them (rapier and hawk)

I think as usual, those systems will end up with PDF. :lol:

I-Hawk ... PDF ... retired AMX-13s ... Hmmmm ....



A blast from the past :D

It will be costly to maintain different ADMS leh... Rapier from UK, I-Hawk from US and the newly acquired Israelis' SPYDER... The cost of maintaining the operational capability and life span of these existing missiles alone is already high, not to mentioned the upkeep of the supporting hardwares like the radar and fire-control system.

Correct me if I'm wrong... PDF do not have ADMS (I mean Rapier and I-Hawk type) element in their structure. From information I read in MINDEF's website, PDF "is responsible for the 24/7 protection of key installations and for coordinating military resources to assist Homefront agencies in civil emergencies, with the HQ manned round the clock to provide an effective and efficient response to incidents island-wide". It doesn't make sense to me that PDF replicate some of the functions perform by RSAF's Air Defence and Operations Command. If AA capability is required, MANPAD like Igna and Mistral or even RBS70 would be more appropriate for such operational requirements.

What I meant was storage and maintenance. I seriously don't think we'd dump those systems even if we're not using them in active roles.

PDF can maintain and store them until there is a need to use them.

I see... but don't you think it is expensive to maintain and store it? Especially so for the life span of electronic components and propellant on board the missiles.

Come to think of it and considering that SG has a requirement to defend against BM, maybe our 3G AD system may include a dual layer of SPYDER SR and MR ADS covering short to mid range with Patriot AMDS (or the Israelis's Arrow) defending against longer range threat?

i think this spyder buy is just to replace the rapier and nothing more lah.... spyder no way got chance to take tong the BM one...

if our DM is really gonna be going for a BMD for our country... it would have to be with system on the upper tier.... like maybe the thaad or standard 3...

:D :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Very Cold War looking
looks cool too with the R2D2 on top
:D :D

You wouldn't have said that if you have read the specification of SPYDER and Patriot. SPYDER is an Air Defence Missile Defence System while Patriot is an Air & Missile Defense System. Both system covering different range and type of threats and as such can complement each other. :ph43r:

Another idea is that SG pump in $$ to develop the potential of MTHEL (Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser) application.

I guess there were pros and cons to acquiring either the SLAMRAAMs or SPYDER.

SLAMRAAMs would mean that SG would have access to AMRAAMC7s, but not sure if they had to be kept in the US.

SPYDER on the other hand, might mean we get to acquire n keep Derbys... if we don't already have them.

An article in the web says that India has finalised buying of the SPYDER system from Israel.
Do we have this on the shopping list?? I mean from a long time ago we have had the I-HAWK, Rapiers and RBS 70s and the more recent ones would be the Igla and the Mistral.... is it due to the lack of need for these systems due to the lack of threat from our neighbours that we deem the purchase of SAMs as not critical??

AFAIK/IIRC, final stages of negotiations are being made to purchased the SPYDER mobile SAM system, as reported by Defense News (During February 2008). I have no access to the article though.

Ok..., fine... I didn't read the title of this thread, neither did Sayaret...!!! :ph43r: :D

anyone read today's Lian He Zao Bao? there was mention of both Iron Dome, as well as the Spyder system, pretty much saying that RSAF will confirm its purchase later this year...

Can scan it bro?? me still outside..

I"m sorry if its kinda small, i was outside when i saw this, and had no chance to scan so I took a pic :(

you can read the Zaobao article here:

http://www.zaobao.com/sp/sp100319_013.shtml

and here's the report on Iron Dome:

http://www.zaobao.com/sp/sp100319_014.shtml

Thanks bdique & kilroy..

For the benefit of our non-mandarin speaking friends. A rough english translation, feel free to improve.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Article: Soon to be procured SPYDER missile system, upgrading our country's air defence capability
Lian He Zao Bao
19 Mar 2010
By Chai Yong Wei
New Missile system

Header: SPYDER is a low level, rapid response surface to air missile system, range 15 km and above, believed to replace a missile used by airforce for over 20 years, the 7 km ranged, UK built rapier missile.

Singapore has approached isreal to buy the SPYDER surface to air missile system, which in range or altitude will be better than the rapier, hence increasing air defence capability.

According to news by an american defence magazine last month, Singapore selected in 2009 the isreali company Rafael's spyder surface to air missile, and received an unknown number of missiles.

According to this paper's understanding, A MINDEF/SAF announcement is expected within this year.

SPYDER is a low level, rapid response surface to air missile system, range 15 km and above, believed to replace a missile used by airforce for over 20 years, the 7 km ranged, UK built rapier missile.

Rapier is used by 165 sqn, formed in 1983, and can shoot down targets within 3 km.

According to the rafael website, SPYDER missile system not only provides a fixed installation air defence capability, it also provides air defence for armoured forces, with all day, 360 degree defence capability, and no limitation on angle.

From target id until missile firing, reaction time is not more than 5 seconds, firing range from within 1 km to over 15km, firing altitude from 20 feet to 9000 feet. It has simultaneous targeting capability, firing single missile or multiple missiles.

SPYDER is the abbreviation of "Surface-to-air Python and Derby". Python and Derby represents the Python 5 and Derby missile, most special feature is that it (the system) uses 2 different types of missile. The Python 5 and Derby are Israel's latest air to air missiles, currently Israeli Air Force's core munition.

Python 5 is a agile capable short-ranged dogfight missile, Derby being a medium range air defence missile, which technology wise is a next generation air to air missile catagory. Israel has packaged them into the same weapons system., equipping into one SPYDER system with short and medium range capability, whilst having 2 separate systems.

Hence SPYDER missile system is cost-effective, providing upgraded air defence for a country with limited military budget. Besides short range air defence, SPYDER also provides medium ranged air defence

As it can cope with both short range and medium range air targets, it can shoot down both aircraft and other air vehicles, as well as UAVs, air dropped bombs and missiles, capability better than current air defence systems.

Singapore is small, having a dense population, with many tall buildings, if attacked, will suffer more greatly than a large country, hence great emphasis is placed on air defence, especially with America's example of 911 terrorists attacking by hijacking airliners and crashing them into ground targets, it makes one appreciate more the importance of air defence.

Besides Rapier, the air force in accordance with its differing environment needs and uses, operates 5 other types of air defence system, including the "improved hawk" (I-hawk), "needle" type (IGLA), RBS 70 type laser guidance, north wind type (Mistral) and oerlikon 35mm calibre gun.

Malaysia Defence Minister:

No need to worry or speculate

Singapore's actions of purchasing an air defence system has been read by some "people of intent" as an arms race between the two countries.

But the Malaysian defence minister in responding to local media queries, says the purchase of military equipment by a country is a normal affair, no need to worry or speculate.

He said, Malaysia is not worried by Singapore's military activites. He also emphasised, the defence relationship between the 2 countries is very good and often conducts joint military exercises.

Firstly, it is not officially declared by Singapore Govt nor Mindef but we have been hearing from media..2nd what will be MAF next move? Acquire Tor M1?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_missile_system

Probably nothing for a long time given thier finances and set of priorities plus a whole slew of supposedly important purchases yet to materialize. Also, we are replacing old systems. The world does not revolve around the MAF and I think our purchases reflect real and necessary requirements on a larger scale.

weasel, i think there was something mentioned about the Iron Dome also, but I can't recall exactly what it was...

This is the second article in the second link.

US defence mag: artillery shell intercept system capability, Singapore considers the iron dome system
Lian He Zao Bao
19 Mar 2010
New Missile system
By Chai Yong Wei

Singapore island is only 23 km south to north, 40+km east to west, and today's gun artillery, mortars and other new-tech artilleries ranges can reach 40, 50km.

Hence, the development of munitions that can be used to intercept the artillery attacks is very important, but Singapore is not yet equipped to this capability, right now only able to use artillery radar to detect the firing positions, and respond using air or ground-based counter artillery fire.

However, the international military industry developments, other than SPYDER surface to air missile system, Singapore military may approach Israel's Rafael to buy shell-intercepting munition called "iron dome" (iron dome) counter-shell system, with together with SPYDER forms an integrated air defence net.

An American new magazine last month quotes a reporter who attended last month's Singapore air show, Singapore is considering buying the iron dome system.

However, Rafael sales president denied the iron dome news. He said "Singapore has not participated in this project."

The news also stated, other than Singapore, another asian country is also interested in the iron dome system.

The intercept capability of the iron dome system, cover a 4 to 70km area.

It is under development at the moment, Only this january, in south Israel outside gaza completed a large scale secret test, and expects in the latter half of the year to achieve IOC (Initial Operational Capability).

xxxxxxxxxxxx

The rest is about the Israel test which I won't bother to translate.

big thanks! if there is another Asian country, we're back to the India or Seoul question...

Thanks for the translation, weasel. I haven't had the opportunity to peruse the article.