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Title: LALEE - substituted by other alternatives?


MilFan - June 11, 2008 05:14 PM (GMT)
user posted image

I wonder what happened to the LALEE?

Has it been substituted by other possibilities like the contenders of BAMS - the Global Hawk - winner of BAMS ( There were news about buying SG buying time on the GH ), Lockheed Mariner or the Boeing G550?

All of which are shy of the 65000 ft requirement, but the G550 has the pilot option

The rutanesque artist impression definitely entails development costs, an OTC solution would be better'; but the BAMs option like the GH might not be available to NATO or Non-Nato allies for some time to come


YourFather - June 11, 2008 05:42 PM (GMT)
Went kaputz. At least partly because Burt Rutan was denied permission to work with Singapore side by US Govt. Anyway, I always saw it as a tad ambitious. Consider how many GHs did the US lose so far. Is it likely that our attempt would have gone better? I think it's better to get one off the shelf. And the GH looks like it might be approved for sale soon, especially the BAMs version.

MilFan - June 12, 2008 06:17 AM (GMT)
aw crapz

Burt Rutan had a bad stretch recently, scaled was taken over by Northrop, there .
were fatalities in an accident at scaled, he was replaced as president.
He can always consider setting up shop in Sg with gahman as his backers though

There are still other choices
An Eitan with a turbofan might give the ceiling/payload required?


QUOTE (yourfather)
And the GH looks like it might be approved for sale soon, especially the BAMs version.


you think? becos of the EADS eurohawk tie up?

YourFather - June 14, 2008 04:21 PM (GMT)
Just found a June 2007 article from AWST. Only the relevant bits posted.

QUOTE
Unmanned and Unrestrained
Section: PARIS AIR SHOW 2007
High- and low-end unmanned aircraft sales are showing no signs of weakness

The global demand for unmanned aircraft is far from abating, with Singapore looking to overcome international opposition to buying Global Hawks and European industrial rivals lining up to meet long-standing demand for medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) surveillance systems.

After abandoning its own high-altitude UAV development, Singapore has been talking to the U.S. about the sale of two Global Hawks. The proposal hit a snag earlier this year when members of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR)--a multi-government export-control mechanism--did not approve the transaction, according to a program official. Frustrated by the delay, the U.S. government is ready to proceed unilaterally as the terms of the international agreement allow.

Singapore has money for the program in its 2008 budget.  (:huh: Hmmm)  Due to limited airspace in the Southeast Asian city-state, the UAVs would likely be based in Guam, where the Pentagon is setting up a U.S. Global Hawk facility to cover Pacific theater needs.

The U.S. Air Force and Global Hawk developer Northrop Grumman are also talking to Spain and South Korea about purchase of Global Hawks, though neither of those sales is expected to get tangled in MTCR problems.


MilFan - June 14, 2008 04:31 PM (GMT)
Based in Guam ....

A service-lease agreement from US operated birds, or RSAF personnel gets a new location for overseas posting?


LazerLordz - June 14, 2008 05:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (MilFan @ Jun 15 2008, 12:31 AM)
Based in Guam ....

A service-lease agreement from US operated birds, or RSAF personnel gets a new location for overseas posting?

More R&R.. :lol:

LionFlyer - June 15, 2008 05:00 AM (GMT)
Aiyah, just get the Eitan from our Mexican friends

YourFather - June 15, 2008 06:17 AM (GMT)
But it isn't clear if it is available for export. At least in the GH case the US is trying to sell it.

FIVE-TWO - June 15, 2008 07:07 AM (GMT)
I'm sure the mexicans are happy to sell anything people will buy ;)

MilFan - June 15, 2008 03:09 PM (GMT)
For the benefit of those who may not know the LALEE program, or believe it exists plse refer to the following -

An excerpt from the DSTA media portal, it's an ST article dated 2005

Other unmanned projects

Air

- Among the unmanned aerial vehicles being developed is Singapore Technologies Aerospace's bat-like MAV-1, or multi-role autonomous vehicle, which can fly into an area, reconnoitre the place, then leave.

It also has the Skyblade II and the cylindrically shaped Fantail, which can take off and land vertically, fly horizontally and hover.

- Defence engineers have also been working on the Lalee, or low altitude long-enduring endurance, a large aircraft that can fly unmanned or be piloted manually.

It is designed to fly at around 18,000m, above the airways and below satellite surveillance systems, possibly serving as an integrated airborne surveillance and communications system, to provide continuous coverage over a large area.



http://www.dsta.gov.sg/index.php?option=co...3672&Itemid=167


RSAF news letter 2004, please referr to page 21

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_we....tmp/mar_04.pdf


Newspaper clipping from the local chinese media

user posted image


One of the more informative non-Sg article on the Lalee, this is from GlobalFlight

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/...-for-lalee.html


...


stars - August 11, 2008 02:49 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Some dozen U.S. allies including Japan, Australia and Singapore have wanted to purchase the aircraft. But the U.S. has regularly declined.

Overseas sales are prohibited under the Missile Technology Control Regime, a voluntary association of 33 countries, including Korea, that share the goal of non-proliferation of ballistic missiles and other unmanned delivery systems that could be used for chemical, biological and nuclear attacks. But according to sources, the U.S. has devised a new way not prohibited under the MTCR to sell the Global Hawk to Korea.

stars - August 12, 2008 02:10 AM (GMT)
maybe this might be more suitable. but might be still a long way from being inducted into service

BAMS/ GH

QUOTE

The BAMS UAS is to be an integral part of the Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance Force. As an adjunct to the P-8A, the BAMS UAS will provide persistent maritime and littoral intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance to join forces and Fleet commanders worldwide. This capability will enhance maritime domain awareness and improve force protection capabilities for the Fleet and the nation.

stars - August 29, 2008 01:41 PM (GMT)
Global hawk = minature communications satellite ?

QUOTE

http://www.sunherald.com/local/story/776574.html

Unmanned aircraft may be tapped for storm duty
By KAREN NELSON - klnelson@sunherald.com


MOSS POINT -- Something that's being manufactured in part right here on the Coast could forever change the face of hurricane predictions, hurricane monitoring and even hurricane relief.

It's the Global Hawk unmanned airplane, a vehicle with surveillance and communication capabilities that make it invaluable to ground troops during a war.

But whether it's detecting land mines in a faraway country or monitoring contraflow in a hurricane evacuation, it's all the same equipment, officials with Northrop Grumman said Wednesday.

TIM ISBELL / SUN HERALD - George Guerra, vice president of HALE Systems, talks to the gathered employees of the Moss Point facility and the media about the importance of the unmanned systems currently under development.

And if Gustav becomes enough of a threat, the Global Hawk's capabilities might get a hurricane test run.

"There are three at Beale (Air Force Base) in California," said Edward A. Walby, director of business development for the Global Hawk. "One could fly here and sit over a hurricane for 18 hours before it has to fly back."

Northrop Grumman unveiled some of the aircraft's capabilities at a celebration at the factory where the fuselages are manufactured, on the grounds of the Trent Lott International Airport north of Interstate 10.

The Global Hawk cruises at 60,000 feet, an altitude that gives it a broad perspective and keeps it out of the way of other air traffic.

But at that altitude, with special radar, infrared and high-definition capability, it can monitor hurricane wind and wave action on the legs of an oil rig throughout a hurricane.

Thwarting communication breakdowns during and after a storm, it can act as a giant antenna for ground communications of all types - translating one form of communication to another (e.g., cell phones to CB radio) and patching communication between first responders and the outside world.

Though it hasn't been used in a hurricane, it has been used to aid firefighters during California wildfires, charting fire paths and enhancing communications.

"I'm confident that if it's significant, it would be used," Walby said. NASA is in line for two that are expected to be flying early next year, he said. Those will likely be part of a NOAA mission to vastly improve the data gathered on hurricanes, tracking them from the time they spin off the coast of Africa until they reach the U.S.

Walby estimated work could begin as early as next hurricane season with a goal of improving predictions by as much as two days.

And using an unmanned vehicle for monitoring could spare the Hurricane Hunters and reserve them for special projects only, he said.

Imaging capability during a storm can locate people lost at sea and it will also assist in studying climate changes. Both the U.S. Coast Guard and Border Patrol are looking at uses. Both the Air Force and the Navy have orders in.


the GH is very very fascinating. sometimes i wonder whether its hyperbole or not. detecting landmines @60,000 feet. amazing.

imagine what we can do with 6 of them. dont need to even send fokker 50s out for maritime patrol. onstation. all the time. plus the kinda communications network they can be (but thats a liability in itself)


f14dtomcat - August 29, 2008 02:57 PM (GMT)
Hyperbole maybe not. Remember Gulf War 1991? At that time, many including the pilots were sceptical that the F-117A stealth sh_t really works. What convinced them were dead bats lying on the ground around the aircraft in its hardened shelters in Saudi Arabia. Bats use a form of sonar to see at night. The stealth sh_t worked so well that the bats were flying blindly into the F-117 airframes. Talk about 'Blind as a bat', :D I'm glad I saw the F-117 fly just before retirement at last year's MCAS Miramar airshow 2007 in San Diego. Can't believe its been retired.

As for Global Hawk, I love those UAV platforms. Unmanned, all weather, increasingly autonomous, long range, high altitude and extreme loiter time over the target area. Best of all, if it gets shot down no need for SAR ops. The F-35 JSF could possibly be 'Last of the Mohicans', manned combat aircraft that is. Science fiction is happening right before our eyes. Scary stuff too. If we're not careful, machines may one day battle mankind for control of this planet. The Terminator movie comes to mind :)

For entertaining insights of the Global Hawk (hope this link works) http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/...-hawk-video-htm

If the link doesn't work, go to www.howstuffworks.com and key: 'Global Hawk' and enjoy the short 5mins. video

Iowa_BB61 - September 2, 2008 12:50 PM (GMT)


QUOTE (F-14D Tomcat @ 29 AUG 2008)

Remember Gulf War 1991? At that time, many including the pilots were sceptical that the F-117A stealth sh_t really works. What convinced them were dead bats lying on the ground around the aircraft in its hardened shelters in Saudi Arabia. Bats use a form of sonar to see at night. The stealth sh_t worked so well that the bats were flying blindly into the F-117 airframes. Talk about 'Blind as a bat'...


To a certain degree, that's an urban legend. ;)


QUOTE (F-177A Nighthawk @ Venik's Aviation Page)

The story of "dead bats" in fact has nothing to do with the F-117A's "stealthy" properties. Bats use ultrasonic signals for echolocation: these are mechanical compression waves not electromagnetic waves, as in case with radars, and have certainly nothing to do with the radar absorbent paint or any geometrical properties of the F-117A. The ultrasonic signals emitted by bats are narrow and highly directional and will reflect from most surfaces, RAM or no RAM.

To explain the "dead bats" phenomenon we only need to remember that the F-117As use highly toxic paint and that the aircraft were stored in hot hangars with restricted ventilation. If the maintenance crews have spent as much time in these hangars as bats did, the bodies of bats would not have been the only dead bodies found around F-117As. 


edie101 - October 13, 2008 04:13 AM (GMT)
anyone here can confirm if LALEE project is dead?

gary1910 - October 13, 2008 01:19 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (edie101 @ Oct 13 2008, 12:13 PM)
anyone here can confirm if LALEE project is dead?

I think so, I think YF has posted something on the subject.

edie101 - October 13, 2008 03:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (gary1910 @ Oct 13 2008, 09:19 PM)
QUOTE (edie101 @ Oct 13 2008, 12:13 PM)
anyone here can confirm if LALEE project is dead?

I think so, I think YF has posted something on the subject.

ohh... thats too bad...

i am in favor of developing or having UAVs with some kind of assault capabilities, launched or remotely controled by our manned fighters or CAEWs...

kanzer - July 14, 2010 08:18 AM (GMT)
preliminary work is underway on the LALEE

work has begun....read the last para

weasel1962 - July 14, 2010 09:32 AM (GMT)
I don't think its the same thing. The original LALEE project was to come up with a HALE UAV. Original design was for a B737-based design. Then there was the Burt Rutan Proteus design (plus another at least another 2 others). At one point, EADS eagle was also considered. Then there was the global hawk/G-550 UAV interest. The latest would have been the Hermes 1500.

Unlike 2001-2004, now there's a number of low cost COTS options eg HAA.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/HighAltitudeAirship/

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/...productcard.pdf

875km x 875km surveillance area. More than sufficient for ISR requirements.

Tot the above should be read with the PTDS system which is already in the field.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/PTDS/index.html

Links to a couple of research done by NUS on airships...
http://dynlab.mpe.nus.edu.sg/mpelsb/aeg/larp/CSJthesis.pdf

http://dynlab.mpe.nus.edu.sg/mpelsb/aeg/airship/thesis.pdf




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