I have been pondering what may happen to RSAF 4 E-2Cs when our G550s arrive late next year. Some reports may be 2 planes may remain as "spare/storage" while the other 2 maybe transfered to other user under approvement from US side as it is still a "sensitive" hardware. Sound a bit similar to our "mexican friends. India maybe interested to getting our AWACS for its 2 carrier force to guard the vast Indian ocean.

I thought the Indian Navy decided on the Hawkeye 2000?

Hmm... I had read elsewhere that the Indian Navy favors the KA-31 AEW? :blink:

i dont think india is the only candidate.

if political pressure scuppers the gripen deal, the erieye /saab2000 might get scrapped too.

with that off the cards, would there be any chance of thailand getting the e2Cs from us ? we might be able to use it as payment for training grounds, in pretty much the same manner which we got rid of the 16 A/B.

kill 2 birds with one stone. equip our thai friends and save on payments for training ground for engineers. but that will definitely piss our good friend razak upnorth and will definitely spur them to get AWACS of their own.

Last heard is that India wants the E-2 to patrol from shore

http://www.alert5.com/2007/02/northrop-gru...t-on-offer.html

http://www.alert5.com/2006/02/navy-still-k...ly-warning.html

Hawkeyes operating from shore not from the two Indian carrier is a bit of a waste, if reports are to be true. I guess it is not easy to train carrier takeoff/landings on Hawkeyes, like what happen with the French Navy.

Indians are not convinced that the hawkeye can do a ski jump take off from their future carriers.

No idea how to make Hawkeye takeoff from small ski equip carrier except by installing rockets to assist the takeoff. Is Hawkeye tested for JATO rocket? I have never come by of such test done by USN or other users.

USN would not strap rockets to their high value assets. JATO is generally reserved for aircraft that needs to take off from very tactical environments, shortened runways, unprepared runways...

Some photos to go along for visualisation purposes.

DATE:16/09/08
SOURCE:Flightglobal.com
Singapore to get additional G550 as AEW trainer
By Craig Hoyle

Singapore Technologies Aerospace Engineering has been awarded a S$105 million ($73.4 million) contract to deliver training services in support of the Republic of Singapore Air Force's future fleet of Gulfstream G550-based airborne early warning and control system aircraft.

Announced on 16 September, the 20-year public-private partnership deal will deliver flying training services and instructors from 2012 using a G550 business jet (below) to be acquired and maintained by ST Aero.

"We have been providing the RSAF with cost-effective solutions to meet its needs in both maintenance and training, and this latest contract further validates our ability to fulfil RSAF requirements," says ST Aero president Tay Kok Khiang.

Singapore will receive four G550 aircraft modified by Israel Aerospace Industries' Elta Systems subsidiary, with these expected to be similar in configuration to the Israeli air force's G550-based conformal AEW (CAEW) aircraft, the first two of which entered service in February and May 2008 (one pictured below at July's Farnborough air show).

Elta says the CAEW platform offers a mission endurance of 9h when operating at an altitude of 41,000ft (12,500m) and 185km (100nm) from its home base. The aircraft features dual S-band radar arrays at the front and rear, plus L-band sensors on the fuselage side, providing 360° coverage. Israel's configuration (diagram below) has six onboard operator stations.


The modified G550 also has pod-housed electronic support measures equipment, plus satellite communications and line-of-sight datalinks. Elta says the airframe modifications have "minimal impact" on the business jet's performance.

According to previous statements by Singapore's defence ministry, its AEW aircraft will be delivered between late 2008 and 2010.

Four GW550? I thought we bought six???

Hey...yeah..I tot it was six planes too....

Anyway, I really wonder why we need 6 because 1 aircraft already covers a large area and with 4 it should sufficiently cover the areas plus rotation...

The 4 E2Cs, can they be converted for use as MPAs?? I mean the Fokkers are there, but there is talk about replacing them or putting extra planes in this role which would be crucial for protecting our sea lanes / anti piracy / maritime patrols / snooping around perhaps??

according to passed report the actual plane itself is 6, but CAEW is only 4 so if 1 is with STae for training, the other 1 is for?.............elint?

official press release

http://www.stengg.com/pressroom/press_rele....aspx?paid=1293

Ahh...sodesne....so the actual AEW birds number 4 while the other 2 are training and XX??

Just wanted to know, if RSN / RSAF do add the other 2 E2Cs to the existing 4 MPA Fokkers, would it enhance our maritime patrol and would it be better than having several more PVs or even new vessel class??

Basically i believe that E2C will be scrapped. firstly it doesnt make sense to donate or selling it to any airforces/Coast Guard around the region even if Awacs could help the receiving nation in enhancing in anti-piracy campaign. Considering the military application of the Awacs, its wont do our nation any good not even exchanging them with the permission to use a foreign Air base.

Should Singapore consider an aircraft carrier maybe E2c will be good after some modification. Anyway i think its day dreaming :D

IMO, 4 Fokker 50 MPA and 4 Awacs are adequate for Singapore maritime security 24/7.infact 4 planes of each is consider excessive. ;)

Maybe, we have at least one C-130 and one Fokker 50 aka Black Raven for this role.

The last G550 could be for the replacement of the C130 ELINT plane.

IDF/AF Gulfstream G550 "Nachshon" SIGINT aircraft

i went through the article. interestingly

12 consoles for the sigint version
6 consoles for the AWACS version

could mean that the awacs one is really packed to the brim with gear. but their roles really seem to overlap.

btw anyone know what the conformal in CAEW means ? not sure. but anyone knows if are they hotswappable ?

e.g one mission profile calls for sigint and the gear is stripped out and replaced with a change of operators. kinda like the same concept of the LCS ? modular ?

i tot the c means compact?

Yes, the C is compact in this case.

However, a conformal radar is simply one that blends into the hullform of the platform, unlike the E-2C where it is in a dome sticking out on top. Same thing with the conformal fuel tanks on the F-16s, instead of fuel tanks on the pylons.

Does anyone knows if IDAF,RAF or RSAF's G550s have capablitly to direct surface forces like the J-star?

Why not arm the E2Cs with harpoons for MPA role.... since our neighbours keep on reporting the E2s are armed...........

really? armed? Interesting. can you paste the report here....i have many defence articles around but not once they say it was armed.

Okie.....

they got to be kidding. the only thing that E-2C shoots are radar beams.

well if they can turn a charlie into a spectre.. but then again, i have my doubts

I know for sure that our MPA can be armed with Harpoons but not E-2C. Could there be a mix-up?

RSAF's F50ME2 MPA has weapons not the E-2C Hawkeye. No users of the hawkeye has ever seen arming any weapon of any kind.

RSAF's F50ME2 MPA is not only armed with the Harpoon missile. Beside the wing plyons there is a bomb bay underneath the belly whereby torpedos,depth charges, bouy senors, smoke markers, etc can be loaded to do its job.

F50 got bomb bay? Sounds like transformer.......


just joking....

The F50 at Open House had Harpoons hanging off stubs.

I don’t think so, looking at the higher resolution photos on the web, there seems to be no bomb bay doors on the Enforcers. Their stores are all external from what I’ve seen, 2 mid-fuselage hardpoints and 3 more on each wing.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6320467
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6233110
http://www.fokker-aircraft.info/f50enforcerpics.htm

first time i am hearing the f50 has bomb bays. i was at CAB when they flew back the f50 back to singapore. never saw bomb bays there. besides not all the f50 mpa are equipped to carry weapons.

My bad for saying the RSAF's F50ME2 MPA has "bomb bay" built into the airframe. I honestly mistook RSAF's F50ME2 MPA for the Breguet Br.1150 Atlantique.........which resulted the "bomb bay" issue. :lol:

Anyway does RSAF's F50ME2 MPA have any fitting for "drop chute/pipe", it can "throw/drop" an assortment of ASW items from buoys/markers/smoke/flares/etc.....?

nope, i dont think there's a drop chute coz the aircraft was never built for dropping sonar buoys.

one capability i know is that the aircraft is able to drop from hardpoints are capsules containing survival at sea equipment.

also not all the MPA are equipped with hardpoints.

Why would it be excessive?

I always considered it to be somewhat adequate. The figures for the Hawkeye's mission endurance seems to be around 4-7 hours without inflight refueling.

>6.4 hours from http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/systems/...awkeye_Book.pdf

This seems to be for the Hawkeye 2000, which may have a longer mission endurance than the 2C's we use.

>4 hours from http://www.vectorsite.net/ave2c.html

Even though it's supposed to have a quick roundtime (15 minutes), you would probably want to avoid overtaxing one particular airframe. Presumably, each mission would last around 6 hours with the incoming flight taking up station before the previous one has left in order to avoid a gap in radar coverage.

This would mean at least 2 planes would be required for 24/7 coverage. Toss one in for servicing and one for a spare. This is of course my estimate and by no means accurate.

That said, the Hawkeyes are one of my favorite planes, I really hope they don't scrap them.

If the "Forward Defence" doctrine is indeed true ...then the 4 Awacs is barely enough b'cos you need to man at least 2 teams of CAP for air cover superiority.

i found this interesting publication (seems to be for NE use)

it was recently updated and relisted on mindef webpage. i cant find the original webpage but this links to the same file

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/resources...le.tmp/ds21.pdf

this was mentioned on page 65

some questions on my part, the latest edition of this was published on dec 16 08, so i take its pretty recent.

since our E2Cs are pretty much reprogrammed and refurbished, it probably wouldnt be fair to describe them as E2C anymore, which may explain why no future plans are to be had for the E2Cs as of now.

then where do the gulfstream CAEWs fit in if they were upgraded ? (or was this upgrade done quite a while ago)

add : the link is interesting as it shows a before picture of the E2C interior and a after picture of the E2C upgraded console.

is the E2C really going to be junked ? or are the G550s really replacements for the fokker F50 elint planes ?

edit : paragraphing and formatting, add comments

It doesn't make much sense to junk them while they are still serviceable. Hawkeyes are not run of the mill aircraft but play a highly specialized role. True, the G550s are coming in, but I suspect the E2Cs won't be phased out immediately.