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Title: Special Operations Task Force
Description: SAF to develop integrated task force aga


Foxtrout8 - June 30, 2009 01:37 PM (GMT)
SAF to develop integrated task force against terrorist threats

SINGAPORE: The Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) is looking at developing a potent, integrated Special Operations Task Force that will have capabilities to counter terrorist threats from land, sky and sea. This will comprise the SAF's special operations forces such as the Commandos and Naval Diving Unit.

The chief commando officer will be appointed commander of the Special Operations Task Force, while the commander of the Naval Diving Unit will be the Force's deputy commander.

This is part of the overall priority to build on the third generation Singapore Armed Forces.

These were mapped out in an interview with Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean on Tuesday ahead of SAF Day which is on Wednesday.

Transforming the SAF into a third generation force began in 2004. Five years later, Defence Minister Teo said the key building blocks are in place.

Mr Teo said: "The efforts to put this together is not just buying individual pieces of equipment but also exercising and training. So last year at Exercise Wallaby in Australia, I had the opportunity to see for myself our armoured forces work together with UAVs, the Apache Helicopters and the F16s all tied together as a cohesive package"

Mr Teo stressed that a key element in the 3G transformation is homeland security, and that's where the new special operations command will help the men work together much more cohesively.

The Defence Minister added: "We develop special units in the Commandos and diving unit for distinct missions but as you can see, many of these capabilities, have much more integrated missions.

You can go over land, over sea and you have much more integration in all the operations. So the things which you used to do separately, you now do together, a lot of them. So it makes sense to put together the very sophisticated capabilities of these two forces to give them the additional support that they need and this will allow us a good platform to develop their capability further.

"One of the Special Operations Task Force's duties is is counter-terrorism - storming buildings, aircraft, ships and so on. The technologies and techniques of these things evolve quickly. They also have to deal with expanded threats. For example, we may no longer be dealing only with people with guns, but you may be dealing with people with very powerful explosives and various kinds of other substances such as chemical, radiological, etc.

“So you need to develop the capability to deal with these things and you'll require quite specialised capabilities. You have to deal with them at sea, at shore, buildings and aeroplanes, on ships, coastlines and so on. So you do need to bring together these capabilities, develop them in a much more complete, coherent manner."


Every year, up to six per cent of national spending goes to defence.

Mr Teo added that the new systems that the SAF has acquired have enabled its servicemen to make better use of their time in training. - CNA/vm

evo - June 30, 2009 03:19 PM (GMT)
the beginning of our very own SOCOM?

LazerLordz - June 30, 2009 03:23 PM (GMT)
Interesting. Especially the part about maritime>land ops..

New naval capabilities for this new Force?

Grunt - June 30, 2009 03:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (evo @ Jun 30 2009, 11:19 PM)
the beginning of our very own SOCOM?

1. It is a star creation exercise (ie. commander = BG) & hidden within this structure will be a full time force that is deploy-able without the need to resort to NSFs.

2. No direct command of aviation & assets, no direct budget to develop/purchase aviation - hence less control (air force turf still protected) but gets access to participation command air craft.

LazerLordz - June 30, 2009 03:39 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jun 30 2009, 11:37 PM)
QUOTE (evo @ Jun 30 2009, 11:19 PM)
the beginning of our very own SOCOM?

1. It is a star creation exercise (ie. commander = BG) & hidden within this structure will be a full time force that is deploy-able without the need to resort to NSFs.

2. No direct command of aviation & assets, no direct budget to develop/purchase aviation - hence less control (air force turf still protected) but gets access to participation command air craft.

Seems like it's more of the same, just with greater synergy and ease of command structure then?

Grunt - June 30, 2009 04:53 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (LazerLordz @ Jun 30 2009, 11:39 PM)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jun 30 2009, 11:37 PM)
QUOTE (evo @ Jun 30 2009, 11:19 PM)
the beginning of our very own SOCOM?

1. It is a star creation exercise (ie. commander = BG) & hidden within this structure will be a full time force that is deploy-able without the need to resort to NSFs.

2. No direct command of aviation & assets, no direct budget to develop/purchase aviation - hence less control (air force turf still protected) but gets access to participation command air craft.

Seems like it's more of the same, just with greater synergy and ease of command structure then?

I think to deserve a star - the new SOF commander must show the ability to think strategically in terms of enabling /rotating both tier 1 and tier 2 special forces deployments - so as to enable our Defence Minister to have more response options - be it in responding to a terrorist attack or even to deploy men in harms way (and avoid the embarrassing East Timor deployment delay - where we could initially only send 1 PL after rounding up volunteers). This new arrangement enables centralization of assets, better logistics planning and avoids external turf wars (but CDO & NDU turf wars within the new command structure are inevitable).

The Mumbai attacks (remember a Singaporean died) showed that aviation and logistics are key enablers (and the rethink/planning on overcoming our present logistics limitations has been worked out - hence this new command). This structure will enable us to have more rapidly deployable Tier 1 and Tier 2 teams - in fact, we need to workout any inefficiencies in our current structure and purchase/develop even more specialized gear to keep our Tier 1 edge.

Rightfully, fighting pirates should be deployment of Tier 2 assets and not Tier 1 guys.

LazerLordz - June 30, 2009 05:12 PM (GMT)
Since we do not apparently operate like US SOCOM does, with organic aviation or logistical elements, perhaps this SOTF will address how prioritisation efforts can be done, in terms of getting the bureaucracy out of the way during mission specific periods.. and actually having the operators being close to the CSSCOM loop as these are very vital to special operations missions, the margin for error is very little.

Grunt - June 30, 2009 05:44 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (LazerLordz @ Jul 1 2009, 01:12 AM)
Since we do not apparently operate like US SOCOM does, with organic aviation or logistical elements, perhaps this SOTF will address how prioritisation efforts can be done, in terms of getting the bureaucracy out of the way during mission specific periods.. and actually having the operators being close to the CSSCOM loop as these are very vital to special operations missions, the margin for error is very little.

There are lots of simple and effective admin monitoring tools that will heighten logistics readiness - like maintaining a central aircraft/qualified pilot readiness chart and many other admin matters - such that the minister only goes to 1 department for any emergency... The SOTF will write all the procedures and all other units (Police, army and etc) will take orders from the SOTF. The 1 star will give the group - clout (same rank as 2 PDF Island Defence Commander).

BTW, you mean COSCOM (and not CSSCOM), RIGHT?

Keep in mind that the ASSeT teams of COSCOM are not a Tier 2 force - they are a Tier 3 or trip wire force. Likewise 6 SIR and their Jurong Island duties, they are also a trip wire force (Tier 3).

Eg. US Rangers are a Tier 2 force and they provide security/RCP to the Tier 1 force -like the Rangers supporting the Delta Force in Black Hawk Down. The Pakistani tanks and the Malaysian APCs involved in the extraction, they are supporting assets (Tier 3).

LazerLordz - June 30, 2009 05:59 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jul 1 2009, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (LazerLordz @ Jul 1 2009, 01:12 AM)
Since we do not apparently operate like US SOCOM does, with organic aviation or logistical elements, perhaps this SOTF will address how prioritisation efforts can be done, in terms of getting the bureaucracy out of the way during mission specific periods.. and actually having the operators being close to the CSSCOM loop as these are very vital to special operations missions, the margin for error is very little.

There are lots of simple and effective admin monitoring tools that will heighten logistics readiness - like maintaining a central aircraft/qualified pilot readiness chart and many other admin matters - such that the minister only goes to 1 department for any emergency... The SOTF will write all the procedures and all other units (Police, army and etc) will take orders from the SOTF. The 1 star will give the group - clout (same rank as 2 PDF Island Defence Commander).

BTW, you mean COSCOM (and not CSSCOM), RIGHT?

Keep in mind that the ASSeT teams of COSCOM are not a Tier 2 force - they are a Tier 3 or trip wire force. Likewise 6 SIR and their Jurong Island duties, they are also a trip wire force (Tier 3).

Eg. US Rangers are a Tier 2 force and they provide security/RCP to the Tier 1 force -like the Rangers supporting the Delta Force in Black Hawk Down. The Pakistani tanks and the Malaysian APCs involved in the extraction, they are supporting assets (Tier 3).

No, I meant CSSCOM. :lol:

Combat support elements and all that are vital backbones, and I meant since we do not operate organic elements for special forces units, this new structure may cut down on friction caused by time lapses and delays between units of vastly different operational tempo and culture, through an always "live" liaison dept (at least this is my speculation)

Grunt - June 30, 2009 06:08 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (LazerLordz @ Jul 1 2009, 01:59 AM)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jul 1 2009, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (LazerLordz @ Jul 1 2009, 01:12 AM)
Since we do not apparently operate like US SOCOM does, with organic aviation or logistical elements, perhaps this SOTF will address how prioritisation efforts can be done, in terms of getting the bureaucracy out of the way during mission specific periods.. and actually having the operators being close to the CSSCOM loop as these are very vital to special operations missions, the margin for error is very little.

There are lots of simple and effective admin monitoring tools that will heighten logistics readiness - like maintaining a central aircraft/qualified pilot readiness chart and many other admin matters - such that the minister only goes to 1 department for any emergency... The SOTF will write all the procedures and all other units (Police, army and etc) will take orders from the SOTF. The 1 star will give the group - clout (same rank as 2 PDF Island Defence Commander).

BTW, you mean COSCOM (and not CSSCOM), RIGHT?

Keep in mind that the ASSeT teams of COSCOM are not a Tier 2 force - they are a Tier 3 or trip wire force. Likewise 6 SIR and their Jurong Island duties, they are also a trip wire force (Tier 3).

Eg. US Rangers are a Tier 2 force and they provide security/RCP to the Tier 1 force -like the Rangers supporting the Delta Force in Black Hawk Down. The Pakistani tanks and the Malaysian APCs involved in the extraction, they are supporting assets (Tier 3).

No, I meant CSSCOM. :lol:

Combat support elements and all that are vital backbones, and I meant since we do not operate organic elements for special forces units, this new structure may cut down on friction caused by time lapses and delays between units of vastly different operational tempo and culture, through an always "live" liaison dept (at least this is my speculation)

*** smacks my own head *** :P

Foxtrout8 - July 1, 2009 01:05 AM (GMT)
July 1, 2009
Under one command
SAF's integrated task force will allow quick response to terrorist threats
By Jermyn Chow

CRACK units of the Singapore Armed Forces - the Army's Commandos and Special Operations Force, and the Navy's divers - will be brought together under one command to tackle terrorist threats.

Previously, these units operated independently. The newly-formed Special Operations Task Force, however, will mix and match the different capabilities of Singapore's elite soldiers to muster a faster, sharper response to varying threats.

Deputy Prime Minister Teo Chee Hean, who gave details of the new structure in an interview ahead of SAF Day, which falls today, said it would allow the special forces to work together much more cohesively and effectively.

Integration, he noted, is important, because dealing with terrorists requires bringing guns to the fight on land, in the air and over the sea, and could involve storming buildings, aircraft and ships.

The units involved in the reorganisation have sophisticated capabilities in one or more of these areas. Said DPM Teo, who is also the Defence Minister: 'We need to bring together these capabilities, develop them in a much more complete, coherent manner.'

The new set-up will be headed by the current Chief Commando Officer, Colonel Lam Shiu Tong.

The SAF's latest reorganisation follows similar exercises in the Army, Navy and Air Force to better police Singapore's borders, waters and airspace.

Grouping special operations forces under a single command has been done in other countries, like the United States. One of the American command's primary objectives is to capture or kill terrorists.

In a wide-ranging interview which touched on several issues, DPM Teo also said Singapore shares good bilateral relations with its global and regional partners, such as the US, China and Asean.

He also dwelled at length on the transformation of the SAF into a more potent fighting force, a journey that began in 2004. 'You can now see the shape of this third-generation SAF,' he said.

The Straits Times.



LazerLordz - July 1, 2009 01:47 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Foxtrout8 @ Jul 1 2009, 09:05 AM)
Grouping special operations forces under a single command has been done in other countries, like the United States. One of the American command's primary objectives is to capture or kill terrorists.

I wonder if this is a reference to JSOC.

JSOC's orbat (they don't have organic aviation elements too, unlike USSOCOM)

* 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta
* Intelligence Support Activity (ISA)
* Naval Special Warfare Development Group (SEAL Team Six)
* 24th Special Tactics Squadron
* Joint Communications Unit- (JCU)
* Joint Aviation Unit
* Technical Intelligence Unit
* Task Force 11
* Signals Intelligence Branch

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/dod/jsoc.htm

For those interested in more trivia, an interesting article about why the US decided to make their own JSOC a three star command from its previous two star rating. Just a general article to show how force coordination is very important in special operations unit.

QUOTE
Until a couple of years ago, JSOC only had two flag officers — a two-star commander and a one-star deputy. But even after the addition of a second one-star deputy, the headquarters has found itself stretched trying to command and control multiple task forces in different combat theaters, while retaining enough capability at Pope to respond to a no-notice mission such as a hostage rescue in Colombia.

Air Force Times

Sayaret - July 1, 2009 03:46 AM (GMT)
The rank estab is firstly to signify the importance and also how accessible this person is to the higher levels of authority.

It depends on how crucial this new creation is and how it features in our strategy plans....if it encompasses more than just counter-terrorism (which of course it does but not specified) then a BG rank is necessary....simply becos I understand that Chief Cdo Officer estab is also a BG now.....and chances of a Cdo heading up the outfit is quite high, though from the Navy is also very possible. Must be someone who has Spec Ops profile.

dtwn - July 1, 2009 06:14 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 11:46 AM)
simply becos I understand that Chief Cdo Officer estab is also a BG now.....

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

A little surprising, some of the discussion in the unit postulated a red beret would never make it to a star. If he does, would he be the first to? Heard there was one, but he had to convert to a different beret? Not sure how true that rumor was. Anyone care to give an idea or two? Please ignore if this question infringes upon operational security of any form. I'm just curious.

Article does mention CCO as CO of the new task force, and NDU CO as the XO.

Perhaps some integration has begun.

weasel1962 - July 1, 2009 07:20 AM (GMT)
Single command has several advantages I can think off the top of my head.

(a) Shared equipment

More efficient use of resources eg laser markers etc.

(b) Co-ordinated support

No point having NDU, CDOs, SOF going after the same target

(c ) Shared training/shared services concept

Greater numbers = economies of scale. Whilst some training are probably specialised, some training are'nt.

I think specialised support equipment eg subs to transport divers (human torp) will be part of the set-up.

Wocelot - July 1, 2009 07:42 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jun 30 2009, 11:37 PM)

1. It is a star creation exercise (ie. commander = BG) & hidden within this structure will be a full time force that is deploy-able without the need to resort to NSFs.

For a short while i mistook NDU as SWG.

I suppose NDU would still need to rely on NSF capabilities.

This integration, while looking good on paper, doesn't seem to make any sense to other the joint CSSCOM. After all, NDU are still likely to retain their naval warfare capabilities and SOF on land/air.

I suspect it is more of a SWG-SOF integration than to NDU-SOF ...

Sayaret - July 1, 2009 10:28 AM (GMT)
There are already inherent similarities in duties of these Special Operators....however, if you cut it even finer then you can see that Commandos, SOF and NDU have different areas of action....though broadly it can be classified as "special operations" ..... but in the anti-terrorist job scope, all (SOF included, but exclude Commandos) have that capability.

Would agree that in terms of economies of scale, all would enjoy loads of savings in commonality of weapons and equipments. But for ops-wise, not too sure how that would be split up....shan't go into details of this.


xtemujin - July 1, 2009 10:45 AM (GMT)
English: Special Operations Task Force

Layman term: Special Operations Pow Ka Leow

FIVE-TWO - July 1, 2009 11:31 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (dtwn @ Jul 1 2009, 02:14 PM)

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

he is referring to the estab rank. since the current CCO is a COL then most likely the estab rank is at least a BG. very seldom to have appointment holder reaching estab rank during peace time.

dtwn - July 1, 2009 12:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (FIVE-TWO @ Jul 1 2009, 07:31 PM)
QUOTE (dtwn @ Jul 1 2009, 02:14 PM)

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

he is referring to the estab rank. since the current CCO is a COL then most likely the estab rank is at least a BG. very seldom to have appointment holder reaching estab rank during peace time.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

bdique - July 1, 2009 01:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (dtwn @ Jul 1 2009, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 11:46 AM)
simply becos I understand that Chief Cdo Officer estab is also a BG now.....

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

A little surprising, some of the discussion in the unit postulated a red beret would never make it to a star. If he does, would he be the first to? Heard there was one, but he had to convert to a different beret? Not sure how true that rumor was. Anyone care to give an idea or two? Please ignore if this question infringes upon operational security of any form. I'm just curious.

Article does mention CCO as CO of the new task force, and NDU CO as the XO.

Perhaps some integration has begun.

the present Chief of Armour was once a OC in a CDO battalion...

blowpipe - July 3, 2009 09:34 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (bdique @ Jul 1 2009, 09:37 PM)
QUOTE (dtwn @ Jul 1 2009, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 11:46 AM)
simply becos I understand that Chief Cdo Officer estab is also a BG now.....

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

A little surprising, some of the discussion in the unit postulated a red beret would never make it to a star. If he does, would he be the first to? Heard there was one, but he had to convert to a different beret? Not sure how true that rumor was. Anyone care to give an idea or two? Please ignore if this question infringes upon operational security of any form. I'm just curious.

Article does mention CCO as CO of the new task force, and NDU CO as the XO.

Perhaps some integration has begun.

the present Chief of Armour was once a OC in a CDO battalion...

During my time in the late 1990s, Maj Philips Lim was the CO SIR. He was a amoured scholar who volunteered for the CDO Officer Conversion Course. The battalion was in one of its worse morale standards that time when he took over.

The are severe heat stroke incident that lead to the death of 1 soldier. Following which the armbust accident caused 2 men to die & 1 LTA to lose his right arm. However, under the leadership of Philip Lim, 1 SIR not only recovered but went on to beat the commandos to achieve the best combat unit.

weasel1962 - July 3, 2009 09:59 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 06:28 PM)
There are already inherent similarities in duties of these Special Operators....however, if you cut it even finer then you can see that Commandos, SOF and NDU have different areas of action....though broadly it can be classified as "special operations" ..... but in the anti-terrorist job scope, all (SOF included, but exclude Commandos) have that capability.

Would agree that in terms of economies of scale, all would enjoy loads of savings in commonality of weapons and equipments. But for ops-wise, not too sure how that would be split up....shan't go into details of this.

Wasn't it CDOs who under the rescue in the SQ hijacking?

Grunt - July 3, 2009 10:07 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (weasel1962 @ Jul 3 2009, 05:59 PM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 06:28 PM)
There are already inherent similarities in duties of these Special Operators....however, if you cut it even finer then you can see that Commandos, SOF and NDU have different areas of action....though broadly it can be classified as "special operations" ..... but in the anti-terrorist job scope, all (SOF included, but exclude Commandos) have that capability.

Would agree that in terms of economies of scale, all would enjoy loads of savings in commonality of weapons and equipments. But for ops-wise, not too sure how that would be split up....shan't go into details of this.

Wasn't it CDOs who under the rescue in the SQ hijacking?

SOF did the hostage rescue. At that time we did not admit to having SOF, so the 'credit' (combat ribbon) was given to CDO.

It takes 4 years, after hell week, to train a SOF operator - so not a NSF vocation.

Grunt - July 3, 2009 10:33 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (blowpipe @ Jul 3 2009, 05:34 PM)
QUOTE (bdique @ Jul 1 2009, 09:37 PM)
QUOTE (dtwn @ Jul 1 2009, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 11:46 AM)
simply becos I understand that Chief Cdo Officer estab is also a BG now.....

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

A little surprising, some of the discussion in the unit postulated a red beret would never make it to a star. If he does, would he be the first to? Heard there was one, but he had to convert to a different beret? Not sure how true that rumor was. Anyone care to give an idea or two? Please ignore if this question infringes upon operational security of any form. I'm just curious.

Article does mention CCO as CO of the new task force, and NDU CO as the XO.

Perhaps some integration has begun.

the present Chief of Armour was once a OC in a CDO battalion...

During my time in the late 1990s, Maj Philips Lim was the CO SIR. He was a amoured scholar who volunteered for the CDO Officer Conversion Course. The battalion was in one of its worse morale standards that time when he took over.

The are severe heat stroke incident that lead to the death of 1 soldier. Following which the armbust accident caused 2 men to die & 1 LTA to lose his right arm. However, under the leadership of Philip Lim, 1 SIR not only recovered but went on to beat the commandos to achieve the best combat unit.

Please identify your vocation, unit and mono-intake, if you are going to make claims.

FIVE-TWO - July 3, 2009 10:48 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jul 3 2009, 06:33 PM)
Please identify your vocation, unit and mono-intake, if you are going to make claims.

Geneva Convention says only need to give Rank and Name (IC number must give or not?) :lol:

Grunt - July 3, 2009 10:51 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (FIVE-TWO @ Jul 3 2009, 06:48 PM)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jul 3 2009, 06:33 PM)
Please identify your vocation, unit and mono-intake, if you are going to make claims.

Geneva Convention says only need to give Rank and Name (IC number must give or not?) :lol:

hehe... I know I'm a bit harsh...

blowpipe - July 3, 2009 10:52 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jul 3 2009, 06:33 PM)
QUOTE (blowpipe @ Jul 3 2009, 05:34 PM)
QUOTE (bdique @ Jul 1 2009, 09:37 PM)
QUOTE (dtwn @ Jul 1 2009, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 11:46 AM)
simply becos I understand that Chief Cdo Officer estab is also a BG now.....

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

A little surprising, some of the discussion in the unit postulated a red beret would never make it to a star. If he does, would he be the first to? Heard there was one, but he had to convert to a different beret? Not sure how true that rumor was. Anyone care to give an idea or two? Please ignore if this question infringes upon operational security of any form. I'm just curious.

Article does mention CCO as CO of the new task force, and NDU CO as the XO.

Perhaps some integration has begun.

the present Chief of Armour was once a OC in a CDO battalion...

During my time in the late 1990s, Maj Philips Lim was the CO SIR. He was a amoured scholar who volunteered for the CDO Officer Conversion Course. The battalion was in one of its worse morale standards that time when he took over.

The are severe heat stroke incident that lead to the death of 1 soldier. Following which the armbust accident caused 2 men to die & 1 LTA to lose his right arm. However, under the leadership of Philip Lim, 1 SIR not only recovered but went on to beat the commandos to achieve the best combat unit.

Please identify your vocation, unit and mono-intake, if you are going to make claims.

Ok...

6 SIR, 8th Mono-Intake, 1997-1999. 120MM Mortar

Grunt - July 3, 2009 10:53 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (blowpipe @ Jul 3 2009, 06:52 PM)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jul 3 2009, 06:33 PM)
QUOTE (blowpipe @ Jul 3 2009, 05:34 PM)
QUOTE (bdique @ Jul 1 2009, 09:37 PM)
QUOTE (dtwn @ Jul 1 2009, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Jul 1 2009, 11:46 AM)
simply becos I understand that Chief Cdo Officer estab is also a BG now.....

Has always been a full Colonel, no? Or at least was until a few years ago? Current is a COL as well. He might not stay COL for very long though.

A little surprising, some of the discussion in the unit postulated a red beret would never make it to a star. If he does, would he be the first to? Heard there was one, but he had to convert to a different beret? Not sure how true that rumor was. Anyone care to give an idea or two? Please ignore if this question infringes upon operational security of any form. I'm just curious.

Article does mention CCO as CO of the new task force, and NDU CO as the XO.

Perhaps some integration has begun.

the present Chief of Armour was once a OC in a CDO battalion...

During my time in the late 1990s, Maj Philips Lim was the CO SIR. He was a amoured scholar who volunteered for the CDO Officer Conversion Course. The battalion was in one of its worse morale standards that time when he took over.

The are severe heat stroke incident that lead to the death of 1 soldier. Following which the armbust accident caused 2 men to die & 1 LTA to lose his right arm. However, under the leadership of Philip Lim, 1 SIR not only recovered but went on to beat the commandos to achieve the best combat unit.

Please identify your vocation, unit and mono-intake, if you are going to make claims.

Ok...

6 SIR, 8th Mono-Intake, 1997-1999. 120MM Mortar

So which unit won the best unit competition after the accident (that your are talking about)?

xtemujin - July 3, 2009 11:01 AM (GMT)
First and foremost, I'm from the same batch and all of us who served in that year remember that incident very well.

MINDEF website has clearly stated who was the best unit in 1997/98.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_...22jun98_nr.html

Grunt - July 3, 2009 11:07 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (xtemujin @ Jul 3 2009, 07:01 PM)
First and foremost, I'm from the same batch and all of us who served in that year remember that incident very well.

MINDEF website has clearly stated who was the best unit in 1997/98.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_...22jun98_nr.html

1. He seemed to imply from his post that he was from 1 SIR - so I wanted to know what unit he claimed to be in.

2. He posted some rubbish in the armour thread and Engineer thread (on pioneers) - such that I wonder if he is a Singaporean, so must check if his a noisy lion or a Malaysian pretending to be a Singaporean.

xtemujin - July 3, 2009 11:14 AM (GMT)
Grunt,

Everyone who served in that year knew about that incident and some have first hand information about it.

You'll have to understand that some armour, artillery lingo and doing things are different from the infantry and vice versa.

blowpipe - July 3, 2009 11:14 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Grunt @ Jul 3 2009, 07:07 PM)
QUOTE (xtemujin @ Jul 3 2009, 07:01 PM)
First and foremost, I'm from the same batch and all of us who served in that year remember that incident very well.

MINDEF website has clearly stated who was the best unit in 1997/98.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_...22jun98_nr.html

1. He seemed to imply from his post that he was from 1 SIR - so I wanted to know what unit he claimed to be in.

2. He posted some rubbish in the armour thread - such that I wonder if he is a Singaporean, so must check if his a noisy lion or a Malaysian pretending to be a Singaporean.

I am very surprised that I met such hostilities with many unfounded accusations.

I thought this is a forum where we can share our military experiences for each other to learn especially those who may not be in unit. If anything that I have mentioned is wrong, please feel free to correct and enlighten the rest. I dun believe that everything that is posted in the forum is all true but let it be a sharing & correcting experience.

I think I will stop posting anymore else I may be accused of misleading the rest.

Grunt - July 3, 2009 11:42 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (blowpipe @ Jul 3 2009, 07:14 PM)
I think I will stop posting anymore else I may be accused of misleading the rest.

1. There was a long discussion on the SG subs BUT not in the same thread as your discussion with weasel1962 - so I pointed it out to you nicely - so you can read. I did that nicely. I did not point out the factual errors in your post. If you had read the other thread, I believe your response might be different.

2. Then you entered into a discussion in the thread Home of the Engineers - to say that your pioneers did not carry their prodder on a mission. BUT pioneers have a choice of using the prodder or the bayonet (depending on the mission requirement). Just because they didn't use it doesn't mean they don't have it. So when you say they didn't carry a prodder, I interpret it to mean that you are saying that your pioneers were not professional in doing their task - BTW pioneers always carry their prodder and it is secured on their SBO. To me it is a very unlikely scenario that pioneers don't carry their prodder.

3. What you saw in Lancer was a silent breaching of a minefield - it was probably done as part of the mission requirement as per the exercise play. The alternative is a noisy breach - but that may not be part of the mission exercise. Please understand the context and mission where upon a particular action is taken.

4. As you now confirm, you are not from armour . But before that you said that you don't believe centurion tanks exist in armour orbat. Or that they are not operational - for a variety of reasons you sprout. Then you start to sprout how long it takes to train the AMX-13 crew as a reason why they can't exist - shouldn't you be asking some Qns (rather than telling rubbish)? Is'nt it rather silly to tell the armour guys what they did when you are not in the formation? Why don't you frame it as a question - or are to you too proud to ask?

5. Then you go to the National day photo thread and say that we can fire artillery from a platform on water. You do realise that those guns in the pixs are ceremonial guns, right? And more importantly, there are Malaysians participating in our forum - be respectful of them. Don't talk about firing artillery from a floating platform into other countries - it's flame baiting.

6. Further, be aware that there are OPSEC issues when discussing certain specific issues on armour and on specific breaching techniques - why are you showing no awareness of OPSEC?

7. I was wondering why were you not showing an understanding of the mission objectives at Lancer? You posts led me to question if you had served NS. So that is why I'm giving you a hard time. But now that you have provided your vocation, I can understand why you don't know (about mission objectives of the company and pioneers breaching the minefield) and that you were the EN platoon - so not privy to the mission order. With your clarification, I now understand why you don't know. Sorry about being harsh... I initially suspected that you were a non-Singaporean here to stir shit - so I was giving you a hard time. Now that I know where you are coming from and I'll tone down my responses.

xtemujin - July 14, 2009 06:21 AM (GMT)
SAF special forces to operate under one command
Posted: 13 Jul 2009, 1500 hours (Time is GMT +8 hours)

Report by Ong Hong Tat
Photos by Chai Sian Liang

To enhance its ability to deal with evolving security threats, the elite forces of the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) - such as the Army's commandos and the Navy's Naval Diving Unit (NDU) - will now come together under one command structure. The recently established Special Operations Task Force (SOTF) is an integrated grouping that will provide the SAF with expanded capacity to carry out special operations, counter-terrorism operations and contingency operations.

"With the establishment of SOTF, we are better able to handle any kind of security threats or incidents that will harm homeland security," said Colonel (COL) Lam Shiu Tong, Commander SOTF and Chief Commando Officer.

Apart from homeland security threats, the SOTF will enhance international security, particularly on the high seas. The SOTF will have capabilities to intercept ships suspected of carrying weapons of mass destruction (WMD). This complements the US-led Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI), an agreement between 100 countries that allows PSI states to intercept and detain materials found on board ships registered in signatory nations. Singapore has been a part of the PSI since 2004.

The SOTF will also be directly responsible for evacuation and diverse rescue operations. Specifically, elements from the SOTF can be deployed to evacuate Singaporeans out of harm's way in any part of the world, should the need arise. In addition, SOTF troopers will be involved in the rescue of hostages and even distressed submariners.

To meet the diverse operational needs, special forces from the Army, Navy and other SAF combat forces can be assigned to the SOTF to conduct operations.

With the joint headquarters, the SOTF set-up will include planners from the Air Force and Navy. They will tap on their Service-specific knowledge to mobilise resources for SOTF missions, thus shortening the time taken to respond when they are activated.

These Air and Naval planners will also fulfil the training, operation and capability development role of the SOTF with regards to Air and Naval support.

To develop a common understanding between the special forces, SOTF troopers will now be required to undergo an eight-month Special Forces Qualification Course that will impart the fundamentals to them. Following that, they will head back to their respective units for specialised courses.

The NDU will still drive the doctrine development and training related to diving as they are the Subject Matter Experts (SME) on the matter. Likewise, the commandos will do so for parachute operations.

"We are not losing our individual identities as Divers and Commandos, but gaining a valuable partner in each other's skill sets," said Colonel Tan Tai Tiong, Commander NDU and Deputy Commander SOTF.

Even with all their added responsibilities, the SOTF will continue to hone their core skills in war-time special operations. Using various methods of insertion, SOTF troopers will be deployed deep into enemy territory to conduct operations for strategic effect during war-time operations.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/publicati...Jul09_news.html

Wocelot - July 21, 2009 04:08 PM (GMT)

LazerLordz - July 21, 2009 04:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (xtemujin @ Jul 14 2009, 02:21 PM)
The SOTF will also be directly responsible for evacuation and diverse rescue operations. Specifically, elements from the SOTF can be deployed to evacuate Singaporeans out of harm's way in any part of the world, should the need arise. In addition, SOTF troopers will be involved in the rescue of hostages and even distressed submariners.

To meet the diverse operational needs, special forces from the Army, Navy and other SAF combat forces can be assigned to the SOTF to conduct operations.

With the joint headquarters, the SOTF set-up will include planners from the Air Force and Navy. They will tap on their Service-specific knowledge to mobilise resources for SOTF missions, thus shortening the time taken to respond when they are activated.

Interesting description about the evac role.

bdique - July 22, 2009 12:58 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wocelot @ Jul 22 2009, 12:08 AM)
Hmm, I chanced upon this while googling for something else.

http://www.patriot3online.com/ETS_Brochure_Apr_07.pdfhttp://www.patriot3online.com/ETS_Brochure_Apr_07.pdf

if you check out the latest Army News, you'll see that that system has a new host vehicle...and a big one at that :ph43r:

owd33 - August 3, 2009 09:20 AM (GMT)
Something that may be of interest to add to their arsernal

Dolmen corp TRAC

Wocelot - August 3, 2009 03:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (owd33 @ Aug 3 2009, 05:20 PM)
Something that may be of interest to add to their arsernal

Dolmen corp TRAC


bdique: I think a Ford is easier to climb than a 5 tonner ... hehex

The above link. I rmb somewhere that they used abulldozer or smtto break down a wall... hmm. I guess a bulldozer is much cheaper than whatever above.




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