so all the engineers hiding behind the field fortification and minefield oversights, come out and talk about your trade :ph43r:

eh Gillman Barracks lah. Gillman Heights at that time was just a barren bald patch which I can see from my bunk on top of Commanders Training Wing.

anyone from Gillman? I love that camp.

me from seletar east camp...got sun sand and the sea

Ha... i just MR'd from 316 SCE.

I believe that camp will shut down soon due to Seletar Aerospace Park devt

oh looks like an SCE intro thread :)

me attended 3rd Basic Engineers NCO Course in SOCE Gillman Barracks in 81, which included 5 weeks in Ratchaburi (Crescendo Base 2). Then sent to 38SCE for conversion to Armoured Engineers and then posted forever to SAR (40 and then 42 Selarang).

I've always questioned whether log PT is the invention of 35 SCE.

EX-30SCE from Jurong camp. Everything there is done manually.

:wub: :lol: :wub:

looks like all the engineers are turning up.

I went thru my engineer spec course in 98, plant trained and got cheated to be the pionner platoon for FLB. its not push button as they advertise initially.

attended the supplier training with many RSM (at tat time) and had some fun there. also learnt many things from the germans.

Probably classified but i still have the pic of the supplier training and CEV bridging crossing.

which may explain why there has been no significant improvement in the facilities at Seletar East for the last couple of years. having said that, the 35SCE cookhouse food is still quite decent!

in fact, i'm right now on night's out from my first ICT with 353.

wondering if there're any Survey-trained guys here....

come on, there are no more bad cookhouse food left in the SAF :rolleyes:

used to be from 35SCE. Seletar camp..

when were u there?

i was as DETC until year 2000, we had a hanger all the way inside 35SCE, near the comet hangers there. we drive around 35 all the time...

Looks like I am the only new bird from ETI ???

hang around, maybe some from ETI will appear. Which part of ETI are u from?

do pioneers count >?

what is ETI?

also I was never very sure what is a "pioneer".

If i'm not mistaken, one of the roles of a pioneer detect land mines

clearing mines and doing blow jobs (blowing stuff up). organic engineer component i think.

one question by the FE that was floated during one of our last ICT:

with mine field clearing veh and mechanised bridge, what will be the future role of field engineers?

All change vocation to technicians, make sure the darn vehicles work. :)

Pionner is an engineering vocation in non-engineering battatlions. For example there are pioneers in Guards, Infantry, Armour battalions.

Pioneer normally go thru the same Combat Engineer training but they get posted to non-engineering battatlions. Alternatively, there are also soldiers such non-engineering battatlions who are selected to attend the engineer course.

Every non-engineering battatlion normally has a platoon strength of pioneer. During missions, the platoon will operate decentralised with different sections attached to individual rifle/armour companies. Alternatively, the whole platoon may be called upon to blowup or build battalion defence. Pioneer PC will normally be with CO to advise him of possible engineering tasks during missions. Pioneer PS will normally be with RSM or attached to one of the pioneer sections.

In the US army, Pioneer are non as Sappers. The term "Pioneer" comes about as the soldiers alre always the first to start a mission.

ETI is known as Engineer Training Institute. Formerly SOCE ...

Pioneers and engineers are not absolute in technological advances, such as MCVs and etc. The very reason why we still go on foot is to bring immediately mobility to support any Bn/Bde/Div Ops. Waiting for the vehicle to come is too much of a hassle. Furthermore, enemy can easily take these vehicles out. Not to mention that it might just give away our position.

Then again, since the engineer start working when the infantry stop working. It makes one wonder why do we need to tag along and not come in only after everything ends. This small conflict in operational doctrine between the combat arms and the combat support arms still lingers in my mind, which no regulars could give me a defined answer whenever questioned upon ...

When the assault companies encounter booby traps or mine field, they expect these obstacle to be cleared asap. Hence, the pioneer sections have to tag along these companies. Otherwise how can they just appear as when they are needed?

However, I really pity the pioneers in my battation. Throughout our NSF days and now into our NS, they never fail to carry the same amount of stores in their back & walk with the rifles companies. And mind you, if you think that a rilfemen FBO is heavy, wait till u see what a Pioneer carries. No wonder, many pioneer get back or knee injury and downgraded in the end.

During Lancer, I saw Pioneers clear a minefield using a bayonet instead of a prowler under the hot sun for more than 1 hour while the rifle company take shelter & provide cover.

in that case yes, Pioneer counts. as long as you attended component courses to qualify as some kind of engineers is enough :)

yeah last time my AI troopers got a shock when one day we dismounted with iron pickets and monkey ramp :D

and there was another time when one section was told to bring their AT mines and go with the point platoon, and then during ops order we were told we will be dropped from a helo (last time this kind of things considered damn kinky), and that we have to jump off, but first we should throw the mines down. I told the OC, hey this thing is supposed to be high explosive leh how can throw from helo? :D they decided to leave us behind :ph43r:

carrying heavy load is partially a mindset thing. ever since I went through engineers I always wow people by the load I am able to lift, simply because I know I can, not because I am stronger. most people cannot carry things properly because they didn't know they can, and they don't know how to do it properly.

We always respect the pioneers in our battalion. They are always given privilleges in the barracks. For example, there is alway no weekend guard duty for them, during area cleaning, Pioneer only need to clean the air con office.

However, we know these guys deserve it as they never give a wimper while out in field. They always share & rotate the load among each other & never ask the rifle company to help though the CSM offered. Even when one of them is down, they share the load among the rest.

I'm calling your bluff.... what year, month and unit... If you don't know ask - don't pretend to know what they are doing because you saw it from a long distance and did not understand what was going on.

Pioneers never go on exercise without their basic tools. It's like saying you go for a mission without your SBO.

Any way, you don't seem to understand the purpose of the exercise or the mission you claim to be involved in. Don't post mis-information.

in my time at least, it is true that we have the option to use the prodder or bayonet when squatting. if prone then can only use bayonet.

I know what you are taking about. I also know that blowpipe does know or understand the role of a pioneer - so I'm just seeing if he will continue to sprout rubbish after being challenged.

sorry to pecah your lobang :lol:

you know, he reminds me of a noisy animal with long hair one, but now long time never make noise already. ;)

I saw them in Lancer as I am part of the enemy force. They are clearing the minefield set by us. Distance is less than 100m away.

Anyway I dun understand the rationale of announcing unit? Does it give more credibility to the post? Just to satisfy anyway, I am from 6 SIR, 8th Mono, 120MM.

Why is the minefield being breached by hand? What is the other term for what they are doing? And what is the alternative to doing it by hand?

+1

the mine prodder is the badge of pioneer office. without the mine-prodder, a pioneer is like a soldier without a rifle. think of the rifle creed. this is my rifle, there are many like it, but without me, it is nothing. this is me, without my rifle, i am nothing. its the same thing with pioneer. just substitute it with mine prodder.

AFAIK, we dont do it by hand. because if the mine goes off or anything. its an instant sure kill (face/head/ upper torso injuries).

besides, pioneers today dont carry bayonet. even in the past, im not sure if they do carry bayonet. simply too many stores to carry.

there is a tactical approach to detecting the mine. its something really delicate. hand clearing is something you'd avoid.

maybe its a situation where the pioneer's are simulated "dead" and they have to clear minefield (probably a cluster) with bayonet from regular infantry guys? could be possible. afterall, in brunei, all the uniforms look the same. no distinguishing mark/way to tell a rifle company guy from a pioneer.

Grunt,

I am not a pioneering or engineering expert though we are all from support company. The minefield we setup is a mixture of AP & AT mine. I only know my pioneer normally use a proner straped to their rifle. I am only sharing with what I see.

perhaps we should give him a break.

but then, a prodder (at least that's what i think you mean?) strapped to a rifle? that's new to me. mine was secured to my SBO.

Sorry about being harsh... I initially suspected that you were a non-Singaporean here to stir shit - so I was giving you a hard time. Now that I know where you are coming from and I'll tone down my responses.

BTW during my time the pioneers in my BN carried their bayonets... But then I MR already... so our time not a good ref point anymore. :P

Just to highlight my point, during NSF days, my pioneers straps the proner to their rifles. We used M16 S1 during NSF so they used the black rubber straps to secure the proner to the M16S1 handguards (Front part of the rifle). Means they unscrew the proner into 2 sections before putting onto the handguards.

I will try to scan a picture if I still can find my ORD magazine.

Not sure does ppl know what I am talking about. :blink:

Yup - I've seen the prodder strapped on a M16. So I know how they do it.