Notice there isn't any or much write up about another Asian contender - India.

Allow me to start the ball rolling:

India

Land area: 3,287,240 km

Population: 1,185,483,000

GDP: $3.526 trillion

Armed Forces : Active - 1.55 mio (including Army, air force and navy)
Reserves - 1.15mio
Coast Guard: 19,741
Paramilitary forces: 1.293mio

Navy - 155 ships including aircraft carrier and submarines
Air Force - 1309 aircrafts

Its army is the second largest in the world in terms of military personnel and largest in terms of active manpower. its Air Force is the fourth largest in the world.

It has an arsenal of nuclear weapons which can be delivered via bombers and missiles. It is currently working on the capability to launch nuclear missiles from submarines - this would enable it to have a nuclear triad capability like that of the super powers - to launch nuclear strikes via air sea or land.
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The Indian Armed Forces have a long tradition and they are indeed a force to be reckoned with in its own rights. Armed with a strong and growing economy, like China, India has been buidling up its capabilities slowly but steadily.

Its main competitor has always been Pakistan, but of late its China. With China, India has a series of issues with which they need to handle with care, including border demarkations, territorial differences over border areas and of course spheres of influence and global recognition.

China's expansion into South China Sea area would inevitably make it come into contact with India, because the Indian Ocean is another area which is of strategic concern to China because majority of its oil supplies come from the Middle East.
China has already been slowly and quietly building up influence in Myanmar and trying to establish a base facing the Indian Ocean. Just as China considers SCS its playground, India considers the INdian Ocean its own playground and dont take lightly to Chinese bases there.

Perhaps you guys might want to do a brief continuation on the hard wares deployed by India?

I've been keeping track of the progress of the aircraft carrier of India and China and it will be interesting to see who will be the first to field them.

Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier (INS Vikramaditya), for India and the Varyag for China.

I believed that India will be the first to field INS Vikramaditya. Bear in mind that Indian navy are already many years ahead of China in Carrier experience. Even if PLAN manage to to field an aircraft carrier, it still need many years to operationalised. Beside, it will also need many years to beef up a decent carrier strike group.

Agree, the Indians had been tinkering around with carriers for quite a number of years.....as such they have much more experience operating one, maintaining one, have the sailors experienced in operating one, have the operational experience of "driving" one during real life ops too....

Surface Ships

AIR CRAFT CARRIERS (a) Viraat

DESTROYERS (a) Delhi Class – Delhi, Mumbai, Mysore
(B) Rajput Class – Rajput, Rana, Ranvir, Ranjit, Ranvijay

FRIGATES (a) Godavari Class – Ganga, Godavari, Gomati
(B) Talwar Class – Talwar, Trishul, Tabar
© Brahmaputra Class – Brahmaputra, Betwa, Beas
(d) Giri Class – Dunagiri, Udaygiri, Taragiri, Vindhyagiri

CORVETTES (a) Khukri Class – Khukri, Kuthar, Kirpan, Khanjar
(B) Kora Class – Kora, Kirch, Kulish, Karmuk
© Veer Class – Veer, Nirbhik, Nipat, Nishank, Nirghat, Vibhuti, Vipul, Vinash, Vidyut, Nashak, Pralaya, Prabal
(d) Abhay Class – Abhay, Ajay, Akshay, Agray

OFFSHORE PATROL VESSELS (a) Sukanya Class – Sukanya, Subhadra, Suvarna, Savitri, Sharada, Sujata

MINESWEEPERS (a) Pondicherry/Karwar Class – Pondicherry, Porbandar, Bedi, Bhavnagar, Allepey, Ratnagiri, Karwar, Cannonore, Cuddalore, Kakinada, Kozhikode, Konkan
(B) Mahe Class – Mahe, Malpe

LANDING (a) Magar Class [LST (L)] – Magar, Gharial
(B) Kumbhir Class [LST(M)] – Ghorpad, Cheetah, Guldar, Sharabh, Mahish, Kumbhir
© Shardul Class [LST(L)] - Shardul, Kesari, Airavat
© LCU – L 32 - 39

MISSILE BOATS (a) Chamak Class – Chamak, Chapal

TRAINING SHIPS (a) Tir Class – Tir
(B) Leander Class - Krishna
© Sail Training Ships – Tarangini


FLEET AUXILLIARIES (a) Fleet Tankers – Jyoti, Aditya, Shakti
(B) Diving Support Ship – Nireekshak
© Torpedo Recovery Vessel – Astravahini, TRV A-72
(d) Oceangoing Tugs– Matanga, Gaj

SURVEY AND RESEARCH SHIPS (a) Sagardhwani Class – Sagardhwani
(B) Sandhayak Class – Sandhayak, Nirdeshak, Nirupak, Investigator, Jamuna, Sutlej, Darshak, Sarvekshak

SEAWARD DEFENCE FORCES (a) Tarasa Class FAC(G) – Tarasa, Trinkat,
(B) Seaward Defence Boats – T 54-59, Mithun
© FACs – T 80 - 84
(d) Follow-On FACs - Bangaram Class - Bangaram, Bitra, Batti, Malv, Barantag
(e) Waterjet FACs - Car Nicobar Class - CarNicobar, Chetlat, Cora, Divh, Cheriyam,
Cankarso, Kondul, Kalpeni, Kabra, Koswari, Karuva
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Submarines


VELA CLASS Vela, Vagli

SHISHUMAR CLASS Shishumar, Shankush, Shalki, Shankul

SINDHUGHOSH CLASS Sindhughosh, Sindhudhvaj, Sindhuraj, Sindhuvir, Sindhuratna, Sindhukesari, Sindhukirti, Sindhuvijay, Sindhurakshak, Sindhushastra
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Have gotten the above infor from http://indiannavy.nic.in/subs.htm

Mighty impressive if you ask me......they have substantial vessels numbers plus power projection capabilities.

Interesting that China calls SCS its turf, India calls Indian Ocean its turf, so where would these 2 giants potential clash? If only PLAN sails to Indian Ocean, or IN sails to SEA, then we might see a real tussle.

Both entities share a long border and fought a border war in 1962. The skirmish was sparked by Nehru, caused by Britain and won by Zhou Enlai. The chinese distinguished themselves, gave the Indians a huge scare and they pulled back unilaterally to pre-war borders after defeating the Indians.

Even Delhi was at one stage considered insecure and the western powers ie US were preparing to intervene before the chinese pull-back.

Its almost 50 years already but the 1962 set the tone of China-India relations til today.

The Calvin paper is a good read on the 1962 war.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...rt/1984/CJB.htm

As to India info, one of the best sources would be b-r (www.bharat-rakshak.com). There's sufficient info there so I won't repost things like their orbat etc.

Apparently indian news agencies are reporting that eurojet has secured the LCA engine order ($666m for 99) against competition from GE's F414 ($822m).

The win fuels rumours that typhoon has an edge in the MRCA comp.

A news article about the Indian army modernization struggle
But strangely, it FEATURED A PHOTO OF OUR TROOPS training in the desert!! XDD

Perhaps the news agency just simply use a photo from a joint India-SG Armoured exercise not knowing that in this pic it is the SAF! :D

I think the caption for that pix was supposed to be: "look what we could have afford if we weren't so farked up" :lol:

I think the prospects of a PLAN carrier is quite high, and its operationalization might be earlier than we expect. Overall, I think the PLAN might field a stronger carrier strike group than the Indian Navy once it irons out the kinks in carrier ops.

One major consideration I had was in terms of Strike Group security. The Chinese have begun to field significantly advanced and capable submarines as well as destroyer escorts for such a strike group. Considering the existing hulls of both navies, the Chinese have more capable escort destroyers in the form of the Type-052C destroyer. These are AEGIS equivalent destroyers that can lay down a threat ring 200Km in radius around the strike group against air attacks. Similarly, the Chinese are also fielding indigenously designed nuclear attack submarines like the Shang class.

Until the Indian Navy Akula IIs and Kolkata class destroyers enter service, it seems to me that the PLAN have better technological capabilities to ensure their strike group's security against conventional attacks.

honestly....the PLAN could be an issue of "good to see, not good to eat".....despite all the hoohahs about the new equipment they have, yes they are considered an advancement and a threat but sufficient to threaten the Indians substantially? Doubt so... with the large fleet of vessels and air force the Indians would be a force to be reckoned with....gone are the 1962 standards.....

Actually, the PLAN is advancing much better than the IN is. The IN and the PLAN... well, in terms of their modernisation, one is like the Commonwealth games, the other the Olympics. Look at their procurement FUBARs. Really cannot make it. But they do have some advantages the Chinese don't - experience in operating a carrier which PLAN doesn't, access to Western tech (assuming they stop being so stupid and get hung up on US end user clauses), access to high end cross training with the best navies out there (not for show training that China is limited to). If they capitalise on these and fix their screwed up procurement system, they have hope.

Indian Navy has carrier without capable AAW escorts and only 8 fighters. China navy has no carrier but 2 ships with AESA radars. (Really, calling them AEGIS equivalents is quite a stretch)

The IN equipment in terms of CV escort still sucks though.

Air defence wise, only the Delhis and Talwars are armed with gadflys which is exactly the same as those arming the four PLAN type 956s (sovremenny) and the 052Bs. Even the Type 54As (8 in place) are being churned out with the copied HQ-16s (Buk equivalent) at a remarkable rate.

No equivalent of the grumbles on board the 051Cs or the HQ-9s on the 052Cs. And there are type 052Ds now being built.

But at least the Indians are going with the Barak-8 which finally gives a bit more air defence.

The Indians are crazy enough to try and stick Mig-29Ks onto a kiev platform. At least the Chinese are trying to fit the right a/c onboard a carrier that's designed to operate suks.

What the Indians do have an advantage in is ASW warfare (borne out of pakistani success in the sinking of the Khukri by the Hangor) which may include the disputed sinking of the Ghazi. Their ASW capability is a lot better than the PLAN and that's a major weakness for the PLAN. A lot of the cooperation exercises are focussed on joint ASW.

Subs-wise, I'd say its a plus for the PLAN. The new 041 Yuans are being cranked out in production together with possible Type 095s in the pipeline.

IN carrier escorts don't have area AAW capability, that's true, but I won't go so far to say they suck. Just because a warship doesn't have AAW doesn't equate to it being sucky. I've always wondered on the disproportionate emphasis people place on area AAW to the exclusion of everything else. abti-sub warfare wise the IN ships are better placed than their chinese counterparts due to their better helis and larger heli capacity.

Air defense wise, IN's most of carrier escorts are limited to self protection with the exception of the the Talwars, which can provide limited consort defense at best. However, the IN still has one big advantage over the PLAN - it has a carrier. PLAN doesn't. That means 8 harriers available for air defense duties, which are functionally equivalent to long range SAMs. When coupled to the KA-31s which provide for situational awareness and battle management, an IN taskforce centred around their carrier and its admittedly less flashy escorts will have a situational awareness advantage compared to its PLAN counterpart. Sea Kings with longer endurances as well as KA-31s with AEW capabiltiy enable the taskforce to maintain situational awareness while maintaining discreetness over larger areas for longer periods than the PLAN taskforce with its puny Z-9s and lack of AEW asset.

Yup. Catching up though.

China has been buying KA-28s (10 more to add to their original 9+). Z-8AEWs are the latest plaything. The funny thing is that 321G super frelons were originally ASW but the PLAN Z-8s don't seem to be ASW capable. More than enough platforms to operate helos.

The IN carrier is a major plus for ASW ops esp with the number of ASW sea kings they have in inventory.

Dates have been floated around when the Varyyag or Shi Lang will enter operations (or so called carrier training).

PLAN sonar article
https://www.afcea.org/signal/articles/anmviewer.asp?

And as usual, the indian press gets it spectacularly wrong. GE F414 selected for LCA.

http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/...y_20101001.html

India intends to procure 250-300 fifth gen fighter aircraft from Russia for US$25b.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/I...how/6705406.cms

Accuracy of press report up to individual reader. How effective is the Russki 5th gen is another matter.

sorry to say....Indians got a credibility issue.....talking is always cheap...until the day they place the order.....if not just hot air....

ahem... india nationals you mean? :rolleyes:

But personally, I feel that the Indians are the next best contender to challenge the Chinese.....besides a revived Japan of course.....in fact there are talks the Indians and Japanese are seeking closer ties (both economic and military) which is good news for the region. The Chinese are big enough to to stretched on the South China Sea side and Indian Ocean side.....though they very much want to....