Viking submarine
The aim of the VIKING project is to develop and acquire coastal submarines for Denmark and Sweden and to co-operate also during the in-service phase.

By June 30th 2003 the VIKING project group had completed the detailed description and the projecting of the earlier chosen basic model under the Project Definition Phase part 1 (PDF 1). An agreement concerning execution of the PDF 2 was signed between Denmark and Sweden on May 21 2003.

Due to changes in the national programming of future submarine procurement, Norway has withdrawn from the active work in the VIKING project group by the end of the PDF 1. Norway continues as an observer in the next phase. Consequently Denmark and Sweden continue the work in PDF 2 in order to obtain political approval to enter into contract concerning construction and production of submarines in 2005.

The industrial organisation will be streamlined, as Kockums AB is planned to be chosen as lead supplier with Odense Staalskibsværft A/S as sub-supplier. All other suppliers will be chosen by open competition. The planned duration of PDF2 is until the 30th March 2005 and partial deliveries of results will ensure continous basis for decisions about the construction and building phase.

The participating nations are Denmark and Sweden with Finland, Norway and Singapore as observers.

dOES THAT MEAN THAT THERE IS A POSSIBLITY THAT WE ARE GETTING THE VIKING IN FUTURE

How close are the conditions of the Baltic to that in South East Asia/South China Sea? I am under the impression that the Viking project is rather specifically tailored to the needs of the participant countries. But even if we don't actually get the Viking subs, there must be lots to learn by observing the project.

Theory

For one thing the waters in SEA are a lot warmer compared to the Baltic. So this will probably mean different sonar performance.

The Viking partners will probably want to export the submarine. If they have a SEA partner like Spore, they can add that this submarine is also "suitable" for SEA waters.

Well from what i know the waters there have also got around the same depth that we have here so...yea

Some conceptual ideas for the future Viking SSK , not finalised yet.
I heard it will not be cheap, maybe we may licensed produced them in the future.

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Main characteristics

Full air independent propultion (AIP) capability
Possibility for high speed and long endurance
Tailor-made for the littorals
Large diving depth and ocean-going capacity
Capability to operate in a wide range of water temperature and salinity
Minimized wide spectra signatures profiles
Wide spectrum multi-sensor suite
Stealthy high data rate communication capacity
Flexible payload with a large number of heavy- and lightweight torpedoes
Prepared for mines as well as high precition engagement missiles against sea- and land targets
Capability to support well equipped special forces
Self defence systems against torpedoes and ASW helicopters
Modular design to suit different requirements and to reduce Life Cycle Cost

The Concept

The above mentioned feasibility studies mainly based on the Requirement Document, dated 1997, resulted in a conceptual, but detailed description of a future Viking submarine. The concept called K9 is a two-compartment submarine with a reduced crew compared to the medium sized submarines of today.

MAIN DATA

Displacement 1650 ton

Length overall 60 m

Height 11 m

Beam 7 m

Crew 20-23

As previously mentioned, better sensor performances is of importance to improve the submarine’s range. It is difficult to renew or replace hull mounted sonar antennas during the life time of a submarine while inboard hardware and software should be replaced at certain intervals as a consequence of rapid development of this technology. The feasibility studies have therefore focused on the size and positioning of sonar antennas. The Viking submarine concept has a large integrated conformal array in the bow and a flank array of the same height, allowing vertical beam forming. The sonar system will also consist of an integrated passive ranging and intercept sonar and active sonars for target tracking and navigational aid, mine reconnaissance and obstacle avoidance. A towed array allowing longer rages and lower frequencies can also form an integrated part of the system.

The submarine will be prepared to carry Autonomous Underwater Vehicles (AUV) and Swimming Delivery Vehicles (SDV).

A matter of interesting discussions is the advantages and disadvantages of an optronic mast compared to that of a conventional periscope. The existing concept allows installation of both optronic mast and/or periscope. But if the final decision were in favour of the optronic mast there would be a wider freedom of design.

The sensor system is an integrated part of the new open architecture Combat system, together with the Combat management-, Weapon-, Navigation- and Communication system. All existing and future torpedoes from the three nations can be handled by the Weapon system.

The flexible storage facility allows the submarine to carry a rather large amount of weapons, compared to the size of the submarine. The design of the submarine will not obstruct later installation of surface-to-surface and landattack missiles.

A self-defence missile system against helicopters can easily be incorporated in existing torpedo tubes.

Operating in hallow water as the North Sea, the Baltic and in the fjords will require a very accurate Navigation system, therefore studies have been carried out concerning terrain navigation as a complement to traditional inertial systems.

The harmonisation of the diving depth has allowed the design of a concept tailor-made for littoral warfare with ocean going capacity.

The AIP system in the concept is at the moment based on a new Stirling engine allowing deeper diving depth and having better power density compared to the engines which are operational on the Swedish Gotland class. PG Viking is also looking into the possibility of developing a fuel-cell system with methanol reformers based on commercially available fuel cells.

There is also a possibility to increase speed and endurance by adding an extra module for energy storage containing an extra main battery, diesel generators and fuel. This solves the requirements for increased speed and endurance that only Norway has at the moment.

The prolonged thinking of building in modules also gives the opportunity to exclude options due to lack of requirements or funding. Likewise if some nation wish to fulfil a non-compulsory requirement, there is a possibility to a certain extent to introduce an extra option.
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The key thing here is modularity. Which means we can get the submarine with the general design and only need to change the key systems to suit our requirements and conditions in the S China Sea.

The Viking design seems to suit us fine, with the low manning requirements and the size is moderately sufficient. With the modularity, we can even configure the 3~4 subs slightly differently and encompass a wider role to support the RSN..

A self-defence missile system against helicopters can easily be incorporated in existing torpedo tubes

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wow! second time i hear this..first-time saw at DCN web-site with the French barracuda submarine with anti-air capabilities.

like this, the malaysian lynz anti-sub helicopter sure toast man

compared to malaysian scorpene, viking is miles in front

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The design of the submarine will not obstruct later installation of surface-to-surface and landattack missiles.

this is good. maybe we can turn it into some kind of under-water detterent measures. like israeli doplphin subs which carry nukes..but ours carry conventional war-head lah..but still deterrent as can strike from no where. :ph43r:

Woah there sailor. Lower your excitment, we have not confirm we will be getting it in the first place. Plus, the VIKING is still under development while the scorpene's already operational. Off course the VIKING's way ahead in terms of technology. I eman, who developes a new weapon thats more obsolete than an existing one? :rolleyes:

Hehe.. true...but i don`t tink we got the observer status just like that leh...must pay some money like JSFs..so got high chance mah..i mean..knowing singapore...dun throw away money just like that(millions) unless she`s in it for the kill....Malaysian scorpenes arriving in 2007 and 2008 according to naval tech site..hopefully we can get new subs replace challenger by 2010 onwards. i read in asia-pac forums that malaysia has got 3 subs- 1 agosta for training and 2 scorpenes. :D

On the cover, it's to show the great trust and cooperation between the two countries but yes, definitely have to pay to get into thw program. I think there may be a chance of another Formidable-class frigate-like purchase, with ST Marine getting something new to build. The systems on board definitely have to tweak since the tropical waters are totally different from Nordic waters and not to mention the permenant thermal layer.

Our northern neighbour have procured the 3 mentioned submarines and am currently given training by the Paskistani Navy.

Next time another Frigate no! Next time we get destroyer loaded with Torpedos :P
Joke aside!

Most probably i dont think the DSTA/Navy will wanna another frigate for the time being not until the next decade. After the 6 ships become fully operational with some 10 tons maritime Helicopter, the next priority will be the submarines as you guys mention above. Observing at fashion of RSN's Naval Porcurement dont expect 4 pathetic ships to be able to satisfy RSN's hunger. More submarines will be add on, from my view a further acquisition or an early confirmation purchase of 3-4 submarines definitely will not shun me. Its only the class of submarine that will make me raise my eye brown.

You never knows that the Announcement will be "The Singaporean Navy will be acquiring 3 submarine on a bilateral agreement of a technology transfer. The Singapore technology Marine will be collaborate with "???" to design and build a submarine base on "???" which will suits the RSN needs."

If this happens my conclusion will be Wow!! you are doing an excellent JOB

Hi guys, how many submarine do u think is sufficient for SG. Should we stick to one type of submarine(eg.viking or U214) or have a mixture of both for the future. It may be a bit difficult for the logistic.

One type leh..we sure don`t have money to carry so many types..our future sub can be said to be confirm the viking already now that we pay so much money to join viking program like jsfs(we paid 75-100 million to join as observer). in the near future for ssks, only 2 kinds of new ssks - the german U214 and the viking so we dont have much choice anyway..the viking is better coz its more flexible. the old sjoormen also swedish so we can easily transfer to new subs. singapore will buy 4-6 subs i tink with 4 being more likely but heard the malaysians want to buy 2 more scorpenes.if tatz the case, i think sg might get go for 6 subs afterall.cheers :lol:

I seriously dont think that RSN will hold on total amount of submarine at 6 like what they did to the other Surface Combatant but before any further acquisition the manpower issue needs to be resolve. There could a lack of submariners with the adequate skill to effectively operate submarine and the time frame pocurement may base on the numbers of submariner being trained . Of course the financial year budget must be put into consideration.

tatz why i said 4-6 subs. But you should not forget tat ours submarine strategy is also based not on subs frm malaysia but indonesia as well. both countries will buy more subs in the future. we must hav enuff but not too many to face a direct assualt by malaysia and indonesia sub forces. 6 will be just right to protect all three corners of singapore; south,east and west yar..why you think RSN like number 6 so much?i gave hint oredi yar..

right noe 4 is enuff..who noes in future..


numbers of men shld not worry too much arhh..some things cannot be helped. the subs carry lot less men than ships anyway. and frm now till the time-frame i gave 2010-2012(it would be technicaly cialat to maintain the sjoormens longer than that..paiseh too ok) , more than enough time to train a whole geenration of submariners..and our budget realli reflects our our needs and not the other around..my 2 cent coin view..ahahah..cheers.

Procuring advanced hardware is not enough. To be truly effective, the RSN must emphasize on the quality of the people it deploys onboard its vessels. The RSS Courageous fiasco still leaves a bad taste in the mouth; you can train a crewman to be incredibly proficent in his area of technical expertise but once you have a commanding officer of low competence and very very bad judgement onboard, all those technology and excellent crew count for nothing.

We should do whatever we can to nuture a high calibre of command and control commissioned officers. We should look at the UK Perisher Course and learn what we can and formulate our own effective submarine training doctrine.

It seems like India is trying to get Scopene as well.... See

Delhi sets aside $27b for defence shopping spree ?

"French-made Scorpene submarines are wanted by the Indian navy as it seeks to modernise."

Well, given RSN's excellent training arrangement with Indian Navy, it will present RSN excellent training opportunity to understand the capabilities of the Scopene submarines :)

Quite likely that will send the older subs rather than their latest, so to keep them secret.

I remember one reported exe with the Indian , they send their old Russian subs to the exe.

Funny then how RSN PVs got "sunk" by old "Russian" subs. I thought Indian Navy would have deployed their U209 for training.....

I tot we sunk it. I think it was the old Foxtrot class, not too sure, can someone verify?

Anyway, they did not send their best Kilo class then.

Royal ‘Stirling’ Navy

(Source: Kockums AB; issued July 9, 2004)

All Swedish Navy submarines will soon be equipped with Stirling Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems, which substantially enhances the operational efficiency of conventional (non-nuclear) submarines.

The Swedish Navy submarine HMS Södermanland has recently undergone a refit and been upgraded with the Stirling propulsion system by Kockums, in Karlskrona. And in the autumn, the next Västergötland class submarine should be ready to put to sea, following the launch and sea trials of HMS Östergötland.

The Stirling propulsion system enables a conventional submarine to remain submerged for several weeks, minimizing the risk of detection and greatly increasing its stealth capabilities.

With the completion of the HMS Södermanland and HMS Östergötland upgrades, all Swedish Navy submarines currently in service will be equipped with Stirling propulsion systems. In naval circles, this has led to the coining of a new concept: the “Royal Stirling Navy”.

The Västergötland class submarines have been lengthened by twelve meters. Some claim that this makes HMS Södermanland Sweden’s longest submarine, making it even longer (if only a few centimeters) than HMS Gotland. Needless to say, this is now the subject of intense internal (partisan!) debate.

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Wonder any of our Challenger class has gone thru the same upgrade?
Maybe not, the old hull might not last long enough to make it worthwhile.