I noticed that both Indonesia and Malaysia operate Hawks as Advanced Jet Trainers as well as Light Strike.

We will soon be obsoleting the A4SU and will buy NGF.

So we will have a Jet fighter force consisting mainly of

NGF - F15K
F5E/F
F16C/D Blk 52.

So we will not have any light strike figther the in the orbat. I can imagine using a F16D to take out enemy SAM in a SEAD mission. But using F16 for CAS will be quite overkill.

Probably the new AJT will have some strike capability. unlike the S211 which do not have any combat capability.

I think the S211s should be able to carry some loads, probably not as a light fighter per se.

I also think they are due for replacement though the options are limited at this point in time.

- The most established / successful one is the BAe Hawk
- The up and coming advanced entry is Italy's 346 Advanced Combat Trainer
- The MAKO has the potential to be a better aircraft than the former two, but is not due till 2009 onwards.... :(

Looks a bit like the NGF competition does it not..... <_<

Maybe we should do a synthetic NGT/F (Next Generation Trainer / Fighter) competition here..... LOL

Southpark
The Dude

I don't think the S211 in the RSAF carries any weapon.

But year the BAe Hawk seems the most suitable replacement.

I have > 30 posts. Why am I still a CPL?? :huh:

Hi F-35,
You are what Obersturmfuhrer is afraid of, and I quote :

And pls read the below thread abt the whole ranking system:

http://s8.invisionfree.com/Military_Nuts/i...owtopic=20&st=0

So try not to do such thing, cos if everyone here do likewise , it will become a chatroom instead of forum for discussion & info sharing! :(

Let's get back to the topic proper. I believe RSAF is looking for a new Lead In Fighter Trainer( LIFT) to replace our TA-4SU, modern LIFT was also discussed in WAFF , so I will post some info from there :

1)Bae Hawk
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/lift/

2)Mako
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mako/index.html

3)T50
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t-50/index.html

4)Yak 130
http://www.airforce-technology.com/project..._130/index.html

5)M346
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak/index.html

6)Mig AT
http://www.migavia.ru/eng/production/?tid=1&id=7

It seem there is many new LIFT will be coming into the market, some to me are very impressive , especially the T-50 with max speed up to 1.4 mach!

When I saw the way you post this morning, I know you were trying to boost your ratings. Plse stop that, its childish. There is nothing to gain in having a higher rank.

:D

Why buy LIFTs? why not just subcontract basic fighter training to some other country or share with some other friendly airforce? No sensitive stuff is taught at this stage anyway... You would rather spend the money getting more bang for your buck for operational stuff.

I would presume because

i) We can tailor the AJT program to our needs
ii) The subcontracted country might not have to capability to cope
iii) The LIFTs DO have operational capability. And quite a fair bit, I might add.

Any opinions?

Personally, I believe RSAF should continue to own a small sqn - say about 12 to 20 (max) LIFTs but not more.

Basic flight training these days are basically done overseas after the retirement of the turboprops SF206. I think the S211 is still good to go for another decade for initial jet training. The new LIFT should replace most the current Skyhawks in France save a few for being used for disimilar air combat maneuver training.

The ability of the current LIFTs do have quite significant combat capabilities especially the BAe Hawks. The Hawk has evolved from a rather basic trainer into a advanced trainer/combat aircraft. Just look a little North of singapore and we will fully appreciate it. Looking a little South and very South, we will also see neighbouring countries buying the Hawks not just for training, but for significant combat roles. In fact, I believe the Hawks are paticipating in the Pitch Black exercise.

Having said this, however, I reckon RSAF should spend too much on the new LIFTs. Just buy enough to go around for training. If for some reason, some years intake require more training, we can always send some trainee pilots to Canada and Australia :)

Excellent point, personally, I find having a small force of LIFTs that can double up as secondary fighters/ground attack aircraft a very useful capability to have. Perhaps spring for two seater Hawk 100s with a radar like those the RoKAF mounted with a onboard FLIR (these are pretty small these days).

Trainer, fighter and ground attack all in one. Cheap, fresh and big...err...are we allowed to say that? :lol:

I believe that whatever LIFT we be buying, they will never be seen in our skies. Mostly likely in Cazaux or maybe down under?

Thats right, let the foreign plane-spotters have all the fun eh, eurofighter? <_<

It is a bit of a High-Low mix. We need Hi-tech a/c with outstanding capability but at the same time need some low tech platforms as well.

In the past, the RSAF have very low tech stuff, like F5Es and A4S. Now it is buying very hi-tech equipment. F16D with SEAD capabilty, NGF and maybe F-35 in the future.

So who will be doing the low-tech work?

In the past the RAF uses the Hawks as a point air defense figther in the event of a contingency, this will free up the F3s for long range interception.

I don't think the F5S is a suitable platform for ground attack.

I think a squadron of AJT which has secondary ground attack capability will be good. This will leave us with additional ground attack platform doing short range/low-threat ground attack roles leaving the F16Ds and NGF to do the longer range roles.

Also our doctrine calls for a offensive nature of operation. In this case, if our ground forces is to advance. there will be a need to "hold" ground and maybe deal with gureilla type forces (rear area security). In this event, if our rear areas need air support, can call upon the AJT to support since their only threat is probably going to be light rifle type fire instead of SAMs.

Hope that RSAF stop thinking Hi-Tech all the time.