Super skyhawk question (Military Nuts)

I know this is really crazy but, is it possible to convert an A-4E to an A-4 SU? I know the super skyhawks were based on A-4Cs

It is just that there itsn't any 1/32 A-4C in the market. So anybody could advice?

Nowadays A4 kits are really rare.

Maybe you can check it out on this link; there's also a forum as well.

http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/galleries_air2004.htm

Cheers!

haha thanks.

Can...get a profile drawing of the A-4C. Scale it to 1/32 by reducing/enlarging thru photocopying (hope you're good at Maths) and the sand the A-4E/F nose down to the same length/shape as the C (the E/F nose is longer). I recommend you sand each fuselage half of the kit sepaerately, easier to compare to the plans. Then re-scribe the panel lines.

Hard work, I know.

QUOTE (Viper52 @ Jul 30 2006, 12:00 AM)

Can...get a profile drawing of the A-4C. Scale it to 1/32 by reducing/enlarging thru photocopying (hope you're good at Maths) and the sand the A-4E/F nose down to the same length/shape as the C (the E/F nose is longer). I recommend you sand each fuselage half of the kit sepaerately, easier to compare to the plans. Then re-scribe the panel lines.

Hard work, I know.

I have a side by side comparison here, it seems that the intakes are a little different too. In fact the spine is straight in the A-4C as opposed to the slightly surved A-4E unless I close one eye and pretend it didn't exist.

user posted image

Thank you for the suggestion, I will try it.

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 29 JUL 2006)

I know this is really crazy, but is it possible to convert an A-4E to an A-4SU? I know the Super SkyHawks were based on A-4Cs. It is just that there itsn't any 1/32 A-4C in the market. So anybody could advice?

Whoops...!!! I had always been under the impression that the RSAF orginally procured second-handed USN A-4B SkyHawks in the '70s, as mentioned in the RSAF 35TH anniversary publication ("Wings On High") So..., it was actually supposed to be the A-4C SkyHawks or perhaps the procurement was in multiple batches...??? Please enlightened, THX.

QUOTE (Page 19 @ RSAF 35TH Anniversary Publication ("Wings On High"))

The SkyHawk story began with the purchase of over 50 ex-US Navy A-4Bs which had been stored in the desert boneyard at Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona in 1972. The initial batch of pilots and instructors returning to Singapore in 1974 from training at NAS Lemoore, California formed the nucleus of two squadrons, 142 and 143 Squadrons. In 1984, a decision was made to refurbish the ageing fleet. A non-afterburning version of the General Electric F404-GE-100D turbofan, similar to the ones used in the US Navy's F/A-18 Hornet, was selected. The new aircraft, known as the A-4S1/F-404 (since renamed the A-4SU Super SkyHawk) made its maiden flight in 1986. The new engine gives the Super SkyHawk a higher thrust-to-weight ratio, lower fuel consumption, and thereby significantly improves overall performance.

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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haha I believe it is a mixture of A-4Bs and A-4Cs. FGrom different batches. I heard that the SUs we are seeing today are from the Cs. Bs were used as spares. I could be wrong though. But Bs and Cs also more or less the same airframe bah.

After 6 years of Skyhawk operations, 70 more airframes, a mix of A-4Bs and A-4Cs, were ordered by Singapore in 1980. These were shipped to Singapore for rebuilding, and the A-4Cs emerged as A4S-1s while the A-4Bs remained in storage for use as spares. In total, around 150 airframes, all A-4Bs and Cs, were purchased by Singapore. Along with a number of TA4S-1s, these newer Skyhawks joined the 2 Skyhawk squadrons as attrition replacements from 1982. A further order of 16 stored TA-4Bs in 1983 resulted in conversion to 8 TA4S-1 trainers. By this time 143 Sqn had moved to Tengah AB as a result of Changi being converted to an international airport, and in 1984 a third squadron, No 145 (Hornet) was formed, also at Tengah.

The Singapore Skyhawk Story

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 30 JUL 2006)

HaHa. I believe it is a mixture of A-4Bs and A-4Cs, from different batches. I heard that the SUs we are seeing today are from the Cs, Bs were used as spares. I could be wrong though, but Bs and Cs also more or less the same airframe bah.

After 6 years of SkyHawk operations, 70 more airframes, a mix of A-4Bs and A-4Cs, were ordered by Singapore in 1980. These were shipped to Singapore for rebuilding, and the A-4Cs emerged as A-4S-1s while the A-4Bs remained in storage for use as spares. In total, around 150 airframes, all A-4Bs and Cs, were purchased by Singapore. Along with a number of TA-4S-1s, these newer SkyHawks joined the 2 SkyHawk squadrons as attrition replacements from 1982. A further order of 16 stored TA-4Bs in 1983 resulted in conversion to 8 TA-4S-1 trainers. By this time 143 Sqn had moved to Tengah AB as a result of Changi being converted to an international airport, and in 1984 a third squadron, No.145 (Hornet Sqn) was formed, also at Tengah.

The Singapore SkyHawk Story

Oh..., i see. A sincere thanks for the infomations. LoL..., pardon mine ignorance...

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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More data on the Skyhawk...pixs, graphics, serial nos, the works...from The Skyhawk Association

http://www.skyhawk.org/

QUOTE (Iowa_BB61 @ Jul 30 2006, 01:02 AM)

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 30 JUL 2006)

HaHa. I believe it is a mixture of A-4Bs and A-4Cs, from different batches. I heard that the SUs we are seeing today are from the Cs, Bs were used as spares. I could be wrong though, but Bs and Cs also more or less the same airframe bah.

After 6 years of SkyHawk operations, 70 more airframes, a mix of A-4Bs and A-4Cs, were ordered by Singapore in 1980. These were shipped to Singapore for rebuilding, and the A-4Cs emerged as A-4S-1s while the A-4Bs remained in storage for use as spares. In total, around 150 airframes, all A-4Bs and Cs, were purchased by Singapore. Along with a number of TA-4S-1s, these newer SkyHawks joined the 2 SkyHawk squadrons as attrition replacements from 1982. A further order of 16 stored TA-4Bs in 1983 resulted in conversion to 8 TA-4S-1 trainers. By this time 143 Sqn had moved to Tengah AB as a result of Changi being converted to an international airport, and in 1984 a third squadron, No.145 (Hornet Sqn) was formed, also at Tengah.

The Singapore SkyHawk Story

Oh..., i see. A sincere thanks for the infomations. LoL..., pardon mine ignorance...

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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daijobu i am guilty of an even worse mistake

QUOTE (Cmbt @ Jul 29 2006, 04:25 PM)

I have a side by side comparison here, it seems that the intakes are a little different too. In fact the spine is straight in the A-4C as opposed to the slightly surved A-4E unless I close one eye and pretend it didn't exist.

Thank you for the suggestion, I will try it.

My mistake, yes the intake is slightly different. The A-4C/SU intake does not have the splitter plate found on the A-4E onwards. Pardon the omission.

Think the drawing is slightly in error, there should be no difference in the top of the fuselage between the A-4C and A-4E.

Thanks for quoting my article...and I never realised Wings on High used the text verbatim from the article till Iowa posted the caption ;)

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 29 JUL 2006)

I know this is really crazy, but is it possible to convert an A-4E to an A-4SU? I know the Super SkyHawks were based on A-4Cs. It is just that there itsn't any 1/32 A-4C in the market. So anybody could advice?

Hiaz..., after googling through dozens of online and offline scale-model cataloges and publications. The only 1/32 A-4C SkyHawk available is made off mahogany wood, perhaps "others" might have better luck in locating one. <_<

QUOTE (Viper52 @ 30 JUL 2006)

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 30 JUL 2006)

I have a side by side comparison here, it seems that the intakes are a little different too. In fact the spine is straight in the A-4C as opposed to the slightly curved A-4E unless I close one eye and pretend it didn't exist. Thank you for the suggestion, I will try it.

My mistake, yes the intake is slightly different. The A-4C/SU intake does not have the splitter plate found on the A-4E onwards. Pardon the omission. Think the drawing is slightly in error, there should be no difference in the top of the fuselage between the A-4C and A-4E.

Heres, a similar comparison ...

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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While the lower-resolution artwork posted in mine previous-last post (From: CuttingEdge, ModelWorks (If You Must Know)), illustrated a scaled-comparison (Decal's Details) bewteen the A-4C and A-4E SkyHawk.

And..., here's a higher resolution artwork depicting an United States Navy's A-4C SkyHawk from VA-12 aboard the USS Shangri-La (CV-38) in the '70s. A AviationGraphics.Com production (ArtWork By: Ugo Crisponi).

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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QUOTE (Iowa_BB61 @ Jul 29 2006, 07:55 PM)

And..., here's a higher resolution artwork depicting an United States Navy's A-4C SkyHawk from VA-12 aboard the USS Shangri-La (CV-38) in the '70s. A AviationGraphics.Com production (ArtWork By: Ugo Crisponi).

As an aside, A-4C BuNo. 149493 (featured in the artwork) was later transferred to the RSAF as A4S-1 and later A-4SU 975, and appeared at the RSAF Open House 2001

Thanks for posting all the artwork Iowa, but I'm not sure of the purpose, to illustrate the intakes, or the curvature of the fuselage top?

QUOTE (Viper52 @ 30 JUL 2006)

QUOTE (Iowa_BB61 @ 29 JUL 2006)

And..., here's a higher resolution artwork depicting an United States Navy's A-4C SkyHawk from VA-12 aboard the USS Shangri-La (CV-38) in the '70s. A AviationGraphics.Com production (ArtWork By: Ugo Crisponi).

As an aside, A-4C BuNo. 149493 (featured in the artwork) was later transferred to the RSAF as A4S-1 and later A-4SU 975, and appeared at the RSAF Open House 2001. Thanks for posting all the artwork Iowa, but I'm not sure of the purpose, to illustrate the intakes, or the curvature of the fuselage top?

Nah..., no specific purpose(s). Was simply wondering of contributing some illustrations for reference sake in this particular thread.

Oh BTW, Viper52..., interesting infomation. Was AC-975 also the exact SkyHawk, which was donated (On-Loan Actually To Be Exact, If I ReCalled Correctly) to Temasek PolyTechnic (Now Stationed At Temasek Convention Centre...???)...???

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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QUOTE (Iowa_BB61 @ 30 JUL 2006)

QUOTE (Viper52 @ 30 JUL 2006)

QUOTE (Iowa_BB61 @ 30 JUL 2006)

And..., here's a higher resolution artwork depicting an United States Navy's A-4C SkyHawk from VA-12 aboard the USS Shangri-La (CV-38) in the '70s. A AviationGraphics.Com production (ArtWork By: Ugo Crisponi).

As an aside, A-4C BuNo. 149493 (featured in the artwork) was later transferred to the RSAF as A4S-1 and later A-4SU 975, and appeared at the RSAF Open House 2001. Thanks for posting all the artwork Iowa, but I'm not sure of the purpose, to illustrate the intakes, or the curvature of the fuselage top?

Nah..., no specific purpose(s). Was simply wondering of contributing some illustrations for reference sake in this particular thread.

Oh BTW, Viper52..., interesting infomation. Was AC-975 also the exact SkyHawk, which was donated (On-Loan Actually To Be Exact, If I ReCalled Correctly) to Temasek PolyTechnic (Now Stationed At Temasek Convention Centre...???)...???

Consulted a TP-Friend of mine..., and yup..., it is the exact SkyHawk in question.

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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QUOTE (Viper52 @ Jul 30 2006, 12:38 PM)

QUOTE (Iowa_BB61 @ Jul 29 2006, 07:55 PM)

And..., here's a higher resolution artwork depicting an United States Navy's A-4C SkyHawk from VA-12 aboard the USS Shangri-La (CV-38) in the '70s. A AviationGraphics.Com production (ArtWork By: Ugo Crisponi).

As an aside, A-4C BuNo. 149493 (featured in the artwork) was later transferred to the RSAF as A4S-1 and later A-4SU 975, and appeared at the RSAF Open House 2001

Thanks for posting all the artwork Iowa, but I'm not sure of the purpose, to illustrate the intakes, or the curvature of the fuselage top?

Haha its alright. I can see the intake much more clearly now.

Thanks Iowa!!!

So which aircraft is in Sp now?

QUOTE (Iowa_BB61 @ Jul 30 2006, 02:38 AM)

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 29 JUL 2006)

I know this is really crazy, but is it possible to convert an A-4E to an A-4SU? I know the Super SkyHawks were based on A-4Cs. It is just that there itsn't any 1/32 A-4C in the market. So anybody could advice?

Hiaz..., after googling through dozens of online and offline scale-model cataloges and publications. The only 1/32 A-4C SkyHawk available is made off mahogany wood, perhaps "others" might have better luck in locating one. <_<

QUOTE (Viper52 @ 30 JUL 2006)

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 30 JUL 2006)

I have a side by side comparison here, it seems that the intakes are a little different too. In fact the spine is straight in the A-4C as opposed to the slightly curved A-4E unless I close one eye and pretend it didn't exist. Thank you for the suggestion, I will try it.

My mistake, yes the intake is slightly different. The A-4C/SU intake does not have the splitter plate found on the A-4E onwards. Pardon the omission. Think the drawing is slightly in error, there should be no difference in the top of the fuselage between the A-4C and A-4E.

Heres, a similar comparison ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

------------------

You know, I look at your picture and i can't really tell the difference in nose length for the 2 a/c. But it sure helps in the Intake area.

Btw, may i know how the aim 9 launch rail look like on an A-4Su? My kit only carries the launch rail for the bullpup missiles.

QUOTE (Cmbt @ Jul 30 2006, 09:15 AM)

So which aircraft is in Sp now?

SP got 982/149530
NP got 914/149628

Very happy with those 2 because their appearance filled up 2 gaps in my research :lol:

Heres a pic of 975 in a former life, taken in 1970. http://www.a4skyhawk.org/5E/G149487/html/149493.htm

QUOTE (Viper52 @ Jul 30 2006, 05:22 PM)

QUOTE (Cmbt @ Jul 30 2006, 09:15 AM)

So which aircraft is in Sp now?

SP got 982/149530
NP got 914/149628

Very happy with those 2 because their appearance filled up 2 gaps in my research :lol:

Heres a pic of 975 in a former life, taken in 1970. http://www.a4skyhawk.org/5E/G149487/html/149493.htm

They must have a very exciting life before coming here. But on the other hand, they got a nicer paint scheme here.

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 30 JUL 2006)

Btw, may i know how the Aim-9 launch rail look like on an A-4SU? My kit only carries the launch rail for the bullpup missiles.

Here, and Here. Hope it helps, good luck in scratch-building the resins for the launchers.
Oh..., and Here. :lol:

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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whoa looks like i am giving myself more problems than i expected.

well, worse case senerio I just close one eye about the length of the A-4.
I am not sure whether they include the lenth of the refueling probe when they indicate the lenth. And i can't seem to find any technical drawings on both the A-4C or E.

For Sidewinder rails, can use those included in the Hasegawa 1/48 kit as a guide. Parts F14 and F17.

For the fuselage length, can trace your Hasegawa 1/48 A-4C nose profile by placing each fuselage half on a piece of paper and tracing the outline. Then scale up using photocopy to 1/32 (150% IIRC) and voila!

I believe length does not include IFR probe. Anyway, A-4C vs A-4E specs here: http://www.a4skyhawk.org/2C/techdata.htm

Length:
A-4C/L - 39ft 2"
A-4E/F/M - 40ft 3"

QUOTE (Viper52 @ Jul 30 2006, 11:22 PM)

For Sidewinder rails, can use those included in the Hasegawa 1/48 kit as a guide. Parts F14 and F17.

For the fuselage length, can trace your Hasegawa 1/48 A-4C nose profile by placing each fuselage half on a piece of paper and tracing the outline. Then scale up using photocopy to 1/32 (150% IIRC) and voila!

I believe length does not include IFR probe. Anyway, A-4C vs A-4E specs here: http://www.a4skyhawk.org/2C/techdata.htm

Length:
A-4C/L - 39ft 2"
A-4E/F/M - 40ft 3"

Hi viper, I scale up an internet drawing using microsoft words. And it more or less fits into the model itself. About 1 cm shorter than the fuselage of the A-4E. So it seems to fit the scheme.
However i would like your oppinion on whether this drawing seems right.

I have just printed out a rough template to base my A-4C on.

user posted image

I have done some research, and i have made a few observations about the main differences
between an A-4E ,C and SU

Well the most obvious difference between the A-4E and C will be the nose length, which i think i can rectify.

Following that will be the intake. Unfortunately, I read that the A-4C intake is flushed to the fuselage while the A-4E is seperated. Will be kinda difficult to rectify that. Only thing i can do is to shorten the intake a little.

And it seems that the main difference between an A-4C and SU is that the SU is stretched, to a length similar to the A-4E. Am i right about that?

btw i notice there is a tail pipe below the main engine of the SU that is not included in my kit. Is it an outlet for the apu? Or is it the drag chute housing?

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 31 JUL 2006)

Unfortunately, I read that the A-4C intake is flushed to the fuselage while the A-4E is seperated. Will be kinda difficult to rectify that, only thing i can do is to shorten the intake a little.

Yup..., unfortunately the engine-intakes for the A-4SU is flushed to the chassis.

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 31 JUL 2006)

And it seems that the main difference between an A-4C and SU is that the SU is stretched, to a length similar to the A-4E. Am i right about that?

According to MINDEF Singapore, A-4SU Super SkyHawk overall length is rated at 13.10 m (42.65 Feet And 03.93 Inch).

QUOTE (CenturionMBT @ 31 JUL 2006)

BTW, i noticed there is a tail pipe below the main engine of the SU that is not included in my kit. Is it an outlet for the apu? Or is it the drag chute housing?

IIRC..., theres no opening on what you mentioned to as the "tail pipe", i could be wrong though... APU-Intake would be flushed adjacent to port-side engine-intake.

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~~ Project-ION Phoenix ~~ ~~ Op. IceBerge ~~ ~~ Iowa_BB61 ~~ ~~ xxKuZNeTxx ~~

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QUOTE (Cmbt @ Jul 30 2006, 05:46 PM)

btw i notice there is a tail pipe below the main engine of the SU that is not included in my kit. Is it an outlet for the apu? Or is it the drag chute housing?

If it's the silver thing shown in the photo below, its the drag chute housing. BTW theres an A-4S and TA-4SU in the RSAF Museum, might be a good idea to check it out. Could be a helpful reference.

user posted image

\

haha yep thats the one i was trying to point out. Thanks viper.

Btw, that drawing is correct right?

I suspect the MINDEF length includes the IFR probe, the A-4SU nose should be the same as the A-4C in length & shape..Cmbt, the A-4E/F has a slight bulge under the nose, you might need to sand it away to make it look more like a A-4C, along with minimal shortening.

The drawings you got are not terribly clear or accurate, like I've suggested, using the Hasegawa 1/48 A-4C kit/instructions for a starting point.

haha i am not really willing to spend on another kit to do this kit. Kinda having a hole in my wallet now. So I have to save on what i have. Unless of course some kind soul could help me scan out a copy and i manually scale it to the right size myself.

An advanced thanks to those who would love to take their time and effort to help me in my hobby.

And even if i don't get it , great thanks to all of you who have been giving me tips all these while.

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